So, earlier I had asked questions about smoke houses and I got a lesson from SKR8PN, on the difference between hot and cold smoking. Thank you very much for clearifying that for me SKR8PN! It forced me to do more research and more reading. But this has only led to more questions. After doing more googling I came across this site.... http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/index.php If you are into grilling, bbq, ect, I would highly recommend going there. Lot's off good information. Even better, lot's of pictures of smoker builds. This gives you alot of information on how to design your own.
There's only one problem. Most of the smokers I have found on that site are geared towards folks either catering OR folks so "into" the art of bbqing they go out and compete in throw-downs for who has be the best bbq. So quite a few of the examples are of smokers on wheels. (trailers)
Now since I'm not interested in doing competitions. Nor am I interested in starting a catering buisness (too many hassles with health departments and all those head aches), yeah read alot of those builds and such, but I was more interested in what folks did for their home. Going further and fruther back in the smoke ring's forums I came across this thread.... http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36837&highlight=brick
It's a nice build, but I really don't need something that big! If you noticed they had to make it about 4' taller to get it up to deck level. I do like grilling, bbqing, and obviously have an interest in smoking. Now I don't need a $20,000.00 outdoor kitchen. That's just not me. Rather put the money into my primary kitchen. So I started reading and researching more and more about brick smokers and bbq's. And oddly there really isn't alot of information out there. Yeah, there's some, but nothing that goes into all the details and about issues to be concerned about.
Some of the issues I already am aware of and have questions about I hope I can get answered here. Or at least pointed in the right direction where I can find the answers.
Going step by step, my first question is about the foundation. For the purposes of this thread I will use these diamentions. Let's say the smoker, fire box, a work-prep area, and mebbe a place to stick small to medium sized grill. I don't need anything fancy like a sink, or outdoor pizza oven, ect. So let's say I can squeeze this all into say 15 feet long and 5 feet wide. The actually brick work doesn't have to be this big, but I want a lip to run paver stones for a patio to lead up to.
Now I understand that when you live in certain areas, due to frost and freeze, you need to dig part of the foundation down to the frost line, and that can vary depending where you live. Now I also understand that I don't have to dig the entire area of 15'x5' down this deep. I'd probably need dig just a trench that's 4-6" wide this deep around the permiter depending on local codes. For the center area, I'd probably want to dig down 4-6". Then of course using rebar in the cement as I poured the foundation.
Question #1 I know there's a difference in types of cement, which would be best to use? or is this also dependant on local codes?
Now after this has been poured, and cured. I want to begin construction. Since using just brick would be rather expensive. The actual structure would be made from cinder block and then use one course of brick more as insulation and for appieracne as well.
Question #2 In the firebox area of the smoker/bbq, I'd proably only want to build this up one course of cinder block and then cover the cinder block with firebrick. I know all motars aren't the same and that you want to use refactory mortar in the fire box as well as in the bbq pit as well. Otherwise standard mortar would crumble from the heat. To hold the heat better the cincerblocks will be on end with the holes facing up. So I can fill them with mortar as well. Should I use refactory in there as well? Is a single course of fire brick inside the firebox thick enough to protect the cinder block "base"?
Question #3 As I add courses of cinder block, I'll slowly be creating basically a brick box in the pit area. I need to bring the bottom of the pit up so as I leave basically a brick's thickness from front to back between the firebox and the pit for heat and smoke to flow between the two. I can think of two options to do this. First of course is to build the area up with cinder blocks. But this will refer back to question #2, would I need to use refactory while doing so. Of course I would use fire brick to line the bottom, walls of the pit, but I'm not sure on how well this would protect the cinder block. The other option is to fill it with dirt then ramming this down. Leaving perhaps enough space for a layer of sand and a course of fire brick.
Question #4 Until SKR8PN told me about reverse flow smoking/bbqing, I'd never heard the term before. But as I found out on The Smoke Ring forums, this is a very popular way of building cookers. And that's what I wish to do when I build my smoker/bbq pit. So I need to take this into concideration while building any type of cooker. Part of any smoking, grilling bbq'ing, you need to control the heat. This is achieved by 1)how much air flows into the fire box 2)how much heat and smoke flow from the firebox into the pit 3)how much heat and smoke is allowed out the chimmney. Controlling #1 and #3 I've figured out. But how to control heat flowing from the fire box into the pit area, well, I haven't got a clue. If this been an all metal converted tank of some sorts there's all sorts of ways to achieve this. But for the life of me, I can't figure out how to do this on a brick structure.
Structurally I have one more question. And that's creating a roof, cieling, top. First I must discuss why I'm designing my hypothetical pit the way I am. I've seen a few of the mobile pits made from oval shaped fuel tanks on The Smoke Ring site. Basically they take the tanks, stand them on the narrow side and then cut doors into the top or bottom of the tanks for acccess. The reason this appeals to me is like those examples I can have racks for cooking on. But this would also give me a large enough area, I can take those racks out and if I plan wisely during contruction add places to hang meats, sausages, cheese, and so on to cold smoke. So my hypothetical pit would be large box with one or two metal doors for access to the racks inside. This also means I'll need to build a roof as well. During my research I came across this youtube of a guy building a brick fireplace/grill. I'm only linking this because even though I've never worked with brick I'm quite sure this is NOT the way to build a top of a bbq....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SH2TIDENqc
If you notice he uses screws to hold up bricks. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you this will eventually fail. At least this guy was smart enough to use steel lintels to hold up the chimney! So that leeds me to...
Question #5 Without ever having laid brick I personally would have used a series of steel lintels to support the top of the pit and firebox for that matter's ceilings. To me this would be a heck of alot more secure then using screws! Is there any other method I should concider?
My final question...for now... Is more of an optional thing. But one I really, REALLY would like to figure out how to do. Because of various reasons, I haven't had the ablity to socialize much. I haven't been in the situation to hold dinner parties and such. This is a major issue in my life I wish to change. While am tired of living in a giant sardine can of a city, doesn't mean I'm anti social. I want entertain, otherwise it wouldn't make sence to have such a large pit in the first place. A part of hosting a party or gathering of people is mixing up what you serve for what ever occation you are celebrating or gathering for. So fine I have a pretty good idea how to add in rails for racks to cook up ribs and such. But what if I wanted to do a whole hog or even a lamb? For that I'd want a spit. And for the life of me I can't figure out how I would build in a spit.
If this isn't complicated enough, one thing I was concidering on doing is adding a warming box above the firebox and next to the pit area. The flow would then be from firebox through pit then to warming are before exiting out chimney. Suggestions?
Final note. Some of you might be wondering why build both a pit and and a grill. Simple answer. The pit will be reseved for either cold smoking for preserving foods, or entertaining groups of people. But let's say I get home from work one night and I want a steak? Or my daughter is visiting with her mother, and we want some sausges or brats for lunch. Would hardly make scence to fire up the pit for these small items. Would be a waste of wood or charcoal. So even before I seen the youtube I posted the link of I had though about take the legs off a modest sized propane grill and building a brick area to support that with. Nothing fancy, don't need 1 gazzilion btu's to cook a steak or a few sausages. But you get the idea.
Jax
There's only one problem. Most of the smokers I have found on that site are geared towards folks either catering OR folks so "into" the art of bbqing they go out and compete in throw-downs for who has be the best bbq. So quite a few of the examples are of smokers on wheels. (trailers)
Now since I'm not interested in doing competitions. Nor am I interested in starting a catering buisness (too many hassles with health departments and all those head aches), yeah read alot of those builds and such, but I was more interested in what folks did for their home. Going further and fruther back in the smoke ring's forums I came across this thread.... http://www.thesmokering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36837&highlight=brick
It's a nice build, but I really don't need something that big! If you noticed they had to make it about 4' taller to get it up to deck level. I do like grilling, bbqing, and obviously have an interest in smoking. Now I don't need a $20,000.00 outdoor kitchen. That's just not me. Rather put the money into my primary kitchen. So I started reading and researching more and more about brick smokers and bbq's. And oddly there really isn't alot of information out there. Yeah, there's some, but nothing that goes into all the details and about issues to be concerned about.
Some of the issues I already am aware of and have questions about I hope I can get answered here. Or at least pointed in the right direction where I can find the answers.
Going step by step, my first question is about the foundation. For the purposes of this thread I will use these diamentions. Let's say the smoker, fire box, a work-prep area, and mebbe a place to stick small to medium sized grill. I don't need anything fancy like a sink, or outdoor pizza oven, ect. So let's say I can squeeze this all into say 15 feet long and 5 feet wide. The actually brick work doesn't have to be this big, but I want a lip to run paver stones for a patio to lead up to.
Now I understand that when you live in certain areas, due to frost and freeze, you need to dig part of the foundation down to the frost line, and that can vary depending where you live. Now I also understand that I don't have to dig the entire area of 15'x5' down this deep. I'd probably need dig just a trench that's 4-6" wide this deep around the permiter depending on local codes. For the center area, I'd probably want to dig down 4-6". Then of course using rebar in the cement as I poured the foundation.
Question #1 I know there's a difference in types of cement, which would be best to use? or is this also dependant on local codes?
Now after this has been poured, and cured. I want to begin construction. Since using just brick would be rather expensive. The actual structure would be made from cinder block and then use one course of brick more as insulation and for appieracne as well.
Question #2 In the firebox area of the smoker/bbq, I'd proably only want to build this up one course of cinder block and then cover the cinder block with firebrick. I know all motars aren't the same and that you want to use refactory mortar in the fire box as well as in the bbq pit as well. Otherwise standard mortar would crumble from the heat. To hold the heat better the cincerblocks will be on end with the holes facing up. So I can fill them with mortar as well. Should I use refactory in there as well? Is a single course of fire brick inside the firebox thick enough to protect the cinder block "base"?
Question #3 As I add courses of cinder block, I'll slowly be creating basically a brick box in the pit area. I need to bring the bottom of the pit up so as I leave basically a brick's thickness from front to back between the firebox and the pit for heat and smoke to flow between the two. I can think of two options to do this. First of course is to build the area up with cinder blocks. But this will refer back to question #2, would I need to use refactory while doing so. Of course I would use fire brick to line the bottom, walls of the pit, but I'm not sure on how well this would protect the cinder block. The other option is to fill it with dirt then ramming this down. Leaving perhaps enough space for a layer of sand and a course of fire brick.
Question #4 Until SKR8PN told me about reverse flow smoking/bbqing, I'd never heard the term before. But as I found out on The Smoke Ring forums, this is a very popular way of building cookers. And that's what I wish to do when I build my smoker/bbq pit. So I need to take this into concideration while building any type of cooker. Part of any smoking, grilling bbq'ing, you need to control the heat. This is achieved by 1)how much air flows into the fire box 2)how much heat and smoke flow from the firebox into the pit 3)how much heat and smoke is allowed out the chimmney. Controlling #1 and #3 I've figured out. But how to control heat flowing from the fire box into the pit area, well, I haven't got a clue. If this been an all metal converted tank of some sorts there's all sorts of ways to achieve this. But for the life of me, I can't figure out how to do this on a brick structure.
Structurally I have one more question. And that's creating a roof, cieling, top. First I must discuss why I'm designing my hypothetical pit the way I am. I've seen a few of the mobile pits made from oval shaped fuel tanks on The Smoke Ring site. Basically they take the tanks, stand them on the narrow side and then cut doors into the top or bottom of the tanks for acccess. The reason this appeals to me is like those examples I can have racks for cooking on. But this would also give me a large enough area, I can take those racks out and if I plan wisely during contruction add places to hang meats, sausages, cheese, and so on to cold smoke. So my hypothetical pit would be large box with one or two metal doors for access to the racks inside. This also means I'll need to build a roof as well. During my research I came across this youtube of a guy building a brick fireplace/grill. I'm only linking this because even though I've never worked with brick I'm quite sure this is NOT the way to build a top of a bbq....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SH2TIDENqc
If you notice he uses screws to hold up bricks. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you this will eventually fail. At least this guy was smart enough to use steel lintels to hold up the chimney! So that leeds me to...
Question #5 Without ever having laid brick I personally would have used a series of steel lintels to support the top of the pit and firebox for that matter's ceilings. To me this would be a heck of alot more secure then using screws! Is there any other method I should concider?
My final question...for now... Is more of an optional thing. But one I really, REALLY would like to figure out how to do. Because of various reasons, I haven't had the ablity to socialize much. I haven't been in the situation to hold dinner parties and such. This is a major issue in my life I wish to change. While am tired of living in a giant sardine can of a city, doesn't mean I'm anti social. I want entertain, otherwise it wouldn't make sence to have such a large pit in the first place. A part of hosting a party or gathering of people is mixing up what you serve for what ever occation you are celebrating or gathering for. So fine I have a pretty good idea how to add in rails for racks to cook up ribs and such. But what if I wanted to do a whole hog or even a lamb? For that I'd want a spit. And for the life of me I can't figure out how I would build in a spit.
If this isn't complicated enough, one thing I was concidering on doing is adding a warming box above the firebox and next to the pit area. The flow would then be from firebox through pit then to warming are before exiting out chimney. Suggestions?
Final note. Some of you might be wondering why build both a pit and and a grill. Simple answer. The pit will be reseved for either cold smoking for preserving foods, or entertaining groups of people. But let's say I get home from work one night and I want a steak? Or my daughter is visiting with her mother, and we want some sausges or brats for lunch. Would hardly make scence to fire up the pit for these small items. Would be a waste of wood or charcoal. So even before I seen the youtube I posted the link of I had though about take the legs off a modest sized propane grill and building a brick area to support that with. Nothing fancy, don't need 1 gazzilion btu's to cook a steak or a few sausages. But you get the idea.
Jax
