My dog needs a job~ Seeing success!

[Dace]

Heeheehee....sorry that was a play on Shiloh's thread about her LGD!

But I read that thread and it sparked an interest in training my 11 yr old sheltie just for mental stimulation.

Background, Lil' Fatty aka Teddy has no training whatsoever. Go ahead, slap me. I'll wait.

Ok done?

So Teddy is just naturally a very well behaved, mellow dog. He never dug, chewed, jumped, growled, or ran away. He is noise sensitive and jumps around barking like an idiot when shades are opened ( in our old house, no longer have shades) or the trash truck comes by. But in his old age his hearing seems to be slightly fading.

His number one goal in life is to be by my side which is sweet but slightly annoying. He follows me all morning while I do my chores, making beds, doing laundry, washing dishes, he joins me when I need to use the restroom and lays outside the shower door while I shower. He would sleep in our room, but his licking is dreadfully annoying! So he sleeps on a bed in the living room.

He is quite smart and I think I would like to train him to do simple tricks....not really sure that I have chores he can help with, certainly he could handle closing cabinets, maybe dragging shoes to the bedroom...although I don't think he has ever picked up a shoe in his life nor does he have any interest in fetch.

I don't have any goals in mind, other than some mental stimulation for the old guy and an intro to training for me.....at some point I will want another dog and I KNOW I will not luck out with a naturally well behaved dog.

So any book suggestions or you tubes would be awesome. Also where do I start? I can get a clicker, and have seen them used on tv many times.....click when the dog performs the desired behavior correctly and reward with a treat....correct?

Lastly, I am growing weary of his raw diet....he is not losing weight so the vets semi diagnosis of thyroid trouble appears to be correct and they want to put him on a prescription food. Not sure if it is grain free, but one of my goals going raw was to eliminate his horrible body odor, which we did to some degree, but he has a yeast problem on his back
side that is due to his weight and it is just not budging!

any advice or guidance would be appreciated!

 

[tortoise]

How many calories worht of raw food are you feeding?

 

[Dace]

Not sure, you helped me figure it out when I first transitioned him, I think it was 1/4 lb of chicken - one wing with a couple hearts, heaping tablespoon of pureed spinach & carrot, tablespoon of kefir, vit e and a fish oil in the morning.

1 wing or 1/4-1/2 of a boney breast or back part for dinner.

I was feeding him a little heavy handedly, the vet said to trim it back so I did because I think he was getting two wings plus a boney back or breast part....no change in 2 mos

Plus, because he is a sheltie, I hate having to clean his chest fur with antibacterial wipes all the time
So I am thinking about trying that* call of the wild* I have heard a lot about.

 

[tortoise]

Not sure, you helped me figure it out when I first transitioned him, I think it was 1/4 lb of chicken - one wing with a couple hearts, heaping tablespoon of pureed spinach & carrot, tablespoon of kefir, vit e and a fish oil in the morning.

1 wing or 1/4-1/2 of a boney breast or back part for dinner.

I was feeding him a little heavy handedly, the vet said to trim it back so I did because I think he was getting two wings plus a boney back or breast part....no change in 2 mos

Plus, because he is a sheltie, I hate having to clean his chest fur with antibacterial wipes all the time
So I am thinking about trying that* call of the wild* I have heard a lot about.

Taste of the Wild is manufacturered by Diamond - a brand riddled with recalls for years.

Maybe there is a different grain-free food you can find?

As far as training, the first thing for her to develop more independence (prepare for distance work) and for your sanity would be to teach him to go lie down in a specific spot. If he already knows to go to a bed or a crate - that's a nice START. (My pet peeve is people saying they already trained something, not understanding that it is a degree of training important. :jumpsoffsopabox:

If you are that far, make a touch pad. Something approx 12" square, not more than 1" tall, strong enough and textured enough to support a dog. A rubber mat, a piece of a carpet, etc. Teach your dog to go to this "place" from everywhere. Then start moving the place around to every place.

Now you have some foundation training to build off of. The deposit is trained off of the place cue. Swap the touch pad for a box and you can do the "100 things to do with a box" traning.

If your dog doesn't already use a crate, you can teach it with the touch pad. It's not about containment, but a foundation for crate games. Heck for this, you can use a big cardboard box with one side cut off.

Got enough to work on?

 

[Dace]

Hey that is a great start Tort! I love it.

He does have a bed and does go into the general direction that we point but it's very vague. I like that, perfect starting point!
So in teaching him to go to the specific spot, am I using the clicker or is this clicker free training? I am not sure how to get him to go where I point other than keep trying till he does it and then praise/ treat him....correct?

On the food, thanks for the heads up. The vet mentioned a prescription food and she knows I want to be grain free, so maybe she has some ideas.... but now that I can't seem to get his weight to budge, I guess it is time to look into it along with thyroid meds

 

[big brown horse]

Hi Dace!!

Great advice Tortoise!!

My dog Kate has a spot. It is actually one of those giant beds from Costco. Every day she has to "go to her spot" for practice...3-4 times per day. And for any time she needs to give us space, ie guests coming over or stange dogs in the area. She can't get up until she is physically released with a touch on her head and the words "O.K.".

We have even taken her "spot" to Petco and Lowes to practice. It moves all around the house too.

Kate is a St bernard who came to us with severe issues. One of them is that she is aggressive, so going to her spot is very important training. She is very stubborn and independent to boot. So if she can learn this as an adult dog your dog will do great!

eta: We feed Wellness.

 

[Dace]

Thanks BBH...is that a grain free food?

Also when I am teaching him to go to his spot am I using a word comand along with a hand motion? (still not sure if I need a clicker)

The only thing that i have ever taught him is to sit and wait until released for his food. Like OFG I take my time and he has to sit and watch me prep his meal....sometimes I leave it sitting on the counter for a few minutes while I wander around hehehehe!

 

[big brown horse]

Thanks BBH...is that a grain free food?

Also when I am teaching him to go to his spot am I using a word comand along with a hand motion? (still not sure if I need a clicker)

The only thing that i have ever taught him is to sit and wait until released for his food. Like OFG I take my time and he has to sit and watch me prep his meal....sometimes I leave it sitting on the counter for a few minutes while I wander around hehehehe!

Wellness is grain free.

I'm not a trainer (my trainer is though ) but I remember Kate needed a hand signal when we first started this, now she just needs the "command". She knows "wait" too, for food and to wait for me to go first through a door or gate. Lots of "good Kates" in between too.

 

[tortoise]

Also when I am teaching him to go to his spot am I using a word comand along with a hand motion? (still not sure if I need a clicker)

You do not need a clicker IF you can say a verbal word with the same tone, every time. I use "yes."

The reason I train this with clicker is it is a simple behavior to "load" the clicker and start a working relationship with a dog. You are, in essense, teaching the dog how to learn.

To teach it:

1. Get ready with food reward (about 2 cups of treats the size of a pencil eraser). It needs to be something your dog goes totally crazy for! Get the touch pad ready. You'll want to start this with a new/novel touch pad. Choose your cue (see #6). Read #11.

2. Get your dog engaged. Your dog needs to be ready to interact, and be focused on you.

3. Drop the touch pad on the floor. Your dog will look at it. Click and then treat your dog ON THE TOUCH PAD.

4. Click every time your dog looks in the direction of the touch pad, moves towards it, or sniffs it. BE PATIENT. DO NOT TALK. DO NOT MOVE. DO NOT HELP YOUR DOG. AFTER the click you can talk, pet, praise, play tug, whatever. For this behavior, keep it to short praise. This behavior is easiest to train if your get a rhythm going.

5. When your dog figures out that "touching this thing makes treats come", your dog will start to stay on the touch pad. Now, switch to throwing the treat away from the pad. This creates a "reset." Your dog can't learn to GO to the touch pad if it never leaves the touch pad.

6. By now your dog is reliably going to the touch pad. Now that we have trained the complete behavior, we can put the cue on it. You DO NOT want a big gesture. DO NOT yell at your dog. Your cue must be consistent, said in the same tone and pitch every time. It should be easy to remember. It cannot sound like anything else. The word "go" is backchained onto this behavior, so don't have a cue containing the word "go."

I do not use "spot" because it starts with "s." "S" is for position words - sit, stand, splat. I don't use "vraous" - that is leaving a room. You don't want to use "bed" crate" or similar location words. I almost always use "place."

The cue is important. For example, my dog understands "go" as a directional verb. So I can tell a dog "go" which alone means walk forward until commanded otherwise. Then tack on "vraous" to go out of the room. Then add on "place" to FIND and go to the touch pad. Then I can add a position (sit, stand, splat, bow, beg, stand upright, zen (lie on side)), and then a movement - speak, smile, paw, wave, dig, head down, head up, etc.

Does this make sense? So to tell my dog to leave this room, look for the touch pad, go to the touch pad, lie down on it, put head to the floor would be "Go vraous place, splat put" After you get this far you can imprint additional cues on behaviors and have a little conversation with your dog. This is a great trick because people that don't understand how dogs learn/understand/think believe that the dog can understan english! You can switch the cues to "go to the living room, lie down on your bed. please do not pout"

OK, I've gone on and on about cues, hopefully you can understand this is an important foundation behavior and how choosing cues will impact future training.

7. Back to training. Your dog is reliably going to the touch pad in order to earn a food reward. Now we want to imprint the cue. Say the cue immediately before your dog goes to the touch pad, reward. Repeat 6 - 10 times. Most dogs will get stuck here. If that happens first DO NOT REPEAT THE CUE. If your dog has totally disconnected and is clueless, go back to #4. Repeat #7 until you believe your dog is connecting the cue to the behavior.

8. Test it! Give your dog the cue. If the dog goes directly to the touch pad - great! You're getting started now! If not, go back to step #4 (it will go really fast) and work on step #7.

9. THIS IS REALLY REALLY IMPORTANT! To avoid spontaneous rehearsal which gets to be a big problem, STOP rewarding when your dog goes to the touch pad by itself. This is called offering the behavior and it shows that your dog has learned how the clicker training game works. But do not reward it!

10. Once the touch pad behavior is TAUGHT (not yet trained), you can introduce another unnamed behavior with clicker training. You can only work one unnamed behavior at a time.

11. It's time to end your session. ALWAYS END BEFORE YOUR DOG WANTS TO!

12. Come back to this behavior for short 2 - 5 minutes sessions. Don't be surprised if you have to go back to step #4 and reteach. As your dog becomes more fluent in the behavior this backtracking will be unnecessary. Add distance, add distraction. Change to a variable or random reward schedule.

 

[tortoise]

Thanks BBH...is that a grain free food?

Also when I am teaching him to go to his spot am I using a word comand along with a hand motion? (still not sure if I need a clicker)

The only thing that i have ever taught him is to sit and wait until released for his food. Like OFG I take my time and he has to sit and watch me prep his meal....sometimes I leave it sitting on the counter for a few minutes while I wander around hehehehe!

Wellness is grain free.

I'm not a trainer (my trainer is though ) but I remember Kate needed a hand signal when we first started this, now she just needs the "command". She knows "wait" too, for food and to wait for me to go first through a door or gate. Lots of "good Kates" in between too.

Putting a hand or body signal introduces more work for the trainer. It can take a really long time to fade off hand, body and touch cues. Sometimes it isn't possible. Hand, body, touch cues are unnecessary to TEACH a behavior, although if your training all these behaviors for TV (for example), you want all silent cues. "My" TV/stunt dog had a whole sign language worked out. It was really cool.

I STRONGLY oppose using the dog's name (or repeating the command) as part of praise. The dog's name is a COMMAND. It means "look at me, come to me." Using the dog's name or the cue in praise undermines the come, attention, or whatever behavior you are training.

Every time that you say a cue and the dog doesn't perform the behavior, you are 1) undermining the behavior 2) creating a superstition or false meaning to the cue. In the case of some training methods, you'll actually poison your cue.

If I say "Sit. Good sit" it doesn't reinforce the cue on the behavior. Besides for devalueing the cue, you've also put in a bridge, but there is not release or termination. That's gonna bite you in the backside when you try to ad duration (stay) to the position.

Here's a little tangent about double commanding (either repeating a cue ("Sit, SIT!") (Sit down) (Sit stay) (Cabella sit). If I say to my dog "Cabella Go lie down" I've called her to come to me and then sent her away. Now a lot of people forget this and correct/punish the dog for the correct response to the dog's name. Bad things. Or what if I say "sit down" How can the dog respond to that? If it sits it is wrong, if it downs it is wrong. You've just stressed out your dog,. Plus most dogs will follow the last cue (down), but you are thinking sit. So first you confuse the heck out of the dog and then correct it for trying. (And wait, it gets corrected for not trying!). Double commanding = bad things.