What to look for in a property to be truly SS?

[Dace]

We have been having interesting conversations with my BIL about when TSHTF type scenarios. I have had this on my mind for a long time and that is what brought me to this site originally, but life circumstances have not allowed me to really follow what I believe.....suddenly others around me are interested.....including my Hubby!

This topic runs so deep it is hard to get a grasp on all of the skills and systems needed so I am going to ask all of you who are much further down the road than I!

What would be the top features you would look for in a property?
I am thinking, wooded, stream or lake, pasture area, fertile soil and located in an area of good rainfall. Midwest? Northwest? Thoughts?

If two families were to go into a property together and build separate homes, how much land would be needed?

I don't watt to debate the reality if if TS will ever HTF.....I would just like to know what you more experienced homesteaders would look for in a property!

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

Seclusion.

Natural water source on property (spring/creek/etc.) and small pond

Some woods

good drainage - you don't want something that floods.

not something that is all hill. Our place is ON a hill, but the lay of our land is not "hilly" if that makes sense.

And, if you don't mind my saying this, unless you know absolutely positively that there would be NO issues with co-owning the land, I would NOT go in with other family. (I'm in that mess now!) IF you and another family wanted to live side by side to "help" each other a long, I would suggest ya'll work on buying two parcels of land side by side - but they would be sole owners of theirs and you sole owner of yours with possible survivor deeds drawn up on each piece.

 

[Dace]

Yes, good point and I know that you are right..... But what are the chances of finding two parcels close to each other?

I was kind of thinking buy a large parcel, like 50 acres-ish and sort of split it but share parts, like pasture land etc.

This is one of those things that you imagine 'if we put our efforts together we would be so much better off' but I know reality does not always work out that way.

I am so glad that we are discussing this though! I have been wanting to head in this direction for so long, and the reality may still be a couple of years away I am happy that at least my family is willing to seriously consider making a change!

I am ready to start exploring and who knows, maybe we can find a owner carry dealmwhere we don't have to come in with a bunch of money!

Also....where do I start looking for property for sale in other areas? Anyone know?

 

[patandchickens]

I'd say by FAR the two biggest things would be water and defensibility. Both of those being a bit more complicated things than might first appear.

If you are truly wanting to prepare for all sorts of SHTF type scenarios I think the ideal situation would be to have a source of DEEP water (and some means of getting it out! ) as well as more readily available surface water (streams, ponds, rainfall, shallow wells). The surface/shallow sources are easily accessible but can be contaminated far more easily (by all sorts of things); deeper aquifers aren't likely to be affected by fallout etc etc anytime soon.

Defensibility-wise, I am going to stick with my reasonably history- and current-events based opinion that very very few people make it for real long one their own in SHTF type situations... what generally succeeds is banding together with others to create a community that is not only much more defensible than individual homesteads/bunkers but is also in a much better position to negotiate reasonably peaceful relations with others in the region. If you want to bet on being one of the very few exceptions to this general rule, you want land that has long sightlines all round but only one or two actual access points due to geography (places like this are pretty rare, esp if you also require water and a means of farming). But otherwise, if you want to bank on what has more often been successful for people in similar circumstances, you want land that is capable of supporting a decent settlement of people or that is surrounded by other land (that you don't own yourself) that can do so (and preferably is owned by reasonably like-minded people)

In most of North America, where winter temperatures are an issue even if you're part-underground, land that can produce a reliable harvest of firewood would be real helpful too.

And, you want somewhere relatively unlikely to severely flood.

JMHO,

Pat

 

[k0xxx]

...

And, if you don't mind my saying this, unless you know absolutely positively that there would be NO issues with co-owning the land, I would NOT go in with other family. (I'm in that mess now!) IF you and another family wanted to live side by side to "help" each other a long, I would suggest ya'll work on buying two parcels of land side by side - but they would be sole owners of theirs and you sole owner of yours with possible survivor deeds drawn up on each piece.

Amen!

Good tillable land. And as Quail said, a good water source. A year round spring would be the best choice, followed by a stream, then a pond. Also a water table that isn't too deep for a hand pumped well would be a great resource.
Here's a link to a short article on things to consider.

 

[k0xxx]

An easy way to start looking in other areas is to go to the United Country website, and select the state that you are interested in. It will give you a good idea of what land is going for in that area, and what type is available.

As for co-buying a parcel, I'd say if you find a large piece, then legally divide it.

 

[Blackbird]

I agree with Aly 100%, especially the bit about seclusion.

Finding land close together isn't always hard, but it might take a couple years to get both families on it, depending on when everything is selling.

Unfortunately my uncle lives right across the field, and my other uncle lived across the road from him. Down the road is the 'home place' (the original homestead that the family has shares in) and there is another property we owned in between this all, not to mentioned two older farm sites with acres of farming land here and there that we own - when you don't like the rest of your family, it sucks.

Also, just because you trust your family now, does not mean that their kids will be as trustworthy, or hold the family's priorities first. We're currently being sued because of this by a relative who inherited a share of farm land after my uncle died. So, if you do co-purchase a parcel, do as K0xxx mentioned and legally divide it.

 

[ohiofarmgirl]

wow k0xxx, great article thanks!

i'll pitch in with "dont go in to buy with family." and even tho you dont think it will 'be that way" with your family.. oh yeah it will. i've been burned twice on both sides (mine and his)
:-(

one thing to consider is buying separate properties a few miles away which gives you breathing space, separates the finances, relieves the tension if someone doesnt like it/has to move, and you can still help each other just fine. in good times you can drive right over (calling first) and in bad you can consolidate to fight the zombies together.

but i think buying one big piece, having it divided, and paying separately is a great way to go. sometimes you'll find properties that say "willing to divide" - especially larger ones.

climate is a big thing - you need to have a good growing climate that is ok for livestock...so the desert or very north might not suit. even tho i've been here a while the humidity is fixin' to kill me and i long for the cool 'left coast' nights.

one thing the article said, that i liked, is that you try and find like minded communities. i love living in a amish community - folks are willing to help, there is a friendliness, and they arent mainstream so they are happy to find farm-minded folks living nearby.

someone here said (sorry i cant remember who) that about an hour from a big city is close enough. that way you are too far for the mutant zombies to walk, but still close enough to commute if you have to. personally my rule is "about an hour from the nearest Trader Joes" - thats so i can get a case of Two Buck Chuck cuz you know that mamma needs her medicine
;-)

seein' as how we just came from my mother in law's, i can tell you that i am strongly thinking about oregon. we like their 'screw you' attitude, that there is no income tax, there's a bunch of do-it-yourselfers, and its temperate - not too hot (depending) and not too cold (depending). we like the medford area as its kinda close to the ocean....and its close enough to Northern Cal (which i love) but not in that financially messed up state all y'all got.

the big thing is the zoning (needs to be ag) and that there are no individual restrictions on the deed to that property. we couldnt believe how hard it was to find this property - almost all of the places had been older farms bought and carved up by developers (or the farm's owner) who had things like:

* no hogs
* no chickens
* no wire fencing of any kind (huh?!?!)
* only 1 chicken per acre

or other totally weird things. and you cant get the restrictions off easily. it was crazy.

you also need to think about the size of the property. for instance around here if its over 10 acres you need to have special financing (i think you have to have at least 20% down)...which is something to consider when/if you go to sell the property.

but if you have over 10 acres and you do anything remotely agriculture related you can get a break on the property tax..but under 10 acres and you have to show a profit of $2500 to get the ag tax discount. so it was a trade off.

so its kinda crazy and you want to make sure that you are working with a real estate agent that knows about ag properties.

and for heavens sakes dont buy a property on a huge hill (we did)... we are getting older by the day. sheesh!

 

[pioneergirl]

I'm with everyone else.....we are looking for land, and have been since last year. Its a long process! We look at water availability (streams, ponds, springs, water table, etc), soil, neighbors, amount and type of timber, etc.

Big thing is, look at whats going on with the people surrounding your parcel. We looked in southern Missouri and thought "wow, this is cheap land" until we noticed that there were no farms or gardens anywhere close. We took a shovel and dug into nothing but rocks! So, that being said, also look at the plants that grow.

I would also look at what other properties around are doing. Is there a farmer selling to a subdivision contractor? You don't want that popping up unexpectedly. Same goes for restrictions. I know DH asks all the time "what are the covenents?" because some can dictate certain restrictions until its paid off. Some say "anything goes" and some say "no tent or campers after a year" I've even had one say "you have to build a house immediately". ???

Anyway, everyone hit on great points. Look at the roads surrounding, Google Earth or other sattelite shots can help a lot and give a great visual of what it really looks like. We also look at properties in the winter, so you can see it at its worst. Then again in spring/summer to see what snow (if any) has hidden.

It can be frustrating, but if you keep plugging at it something will come up!

 

[TanksHill]

I like to think of it as "homesteading" . People tend to take you a bit more seriously. I think that any place I want to homestead will have all the things I would need if there were some type of natural or man made disaster. Shelter, woods, water, land for animals and gardens, space for my orchard and family. Not necessarily in that order.

Not sure if you have it or not but the book Back to Basics has some interesting diagrams on property size and how much land to allot for what. Then it also goes on to water supply, wind, etc.. Animals, gardens and all that go with.

I would move somewhere near family. Maybe not on the same parcel. But there is no reason you can't buy 50 acres and do a lot split. But that would cost a bit. I think it's just better to have all of the legalities in black and white.

I wish I could move with you. You now where I would go. It's funny what Pioneer girl says about Missouri being full of rocks. It's true. My cousin says she grows rocks in her garden. But at the same time there are a lot of Amish and others who make it work some how.

Ha I just clicked on the link posted above. Looks like a good read.

Dace you need to come over. Let my city slicker DH tell you about how amazing the land we saw was. Maybe someday we could be neighbors.

Thanks, gina