...

[freemotion]

Moolie, I've read this too and still scratch my head as I haven't seen the studies anywhere. I can't see that canning at 11 lbs pressure will denature the food more than all day cooking will....I find that the meat-based dishes that I like to can are the ones that do well in a long-cooking situation like the crock pot or a long time in a Dutch oven. But I am open to the evidence.

Until then, my philosophy is to can some, freeze some, and use some freshly made. Whenever I eat canned foods or cooked meals, I try to add something with a live culture in it to the meal. This can be any fermented food or condiment, and can be as simple as a bit of fermented mustard on the meat or a couple bites of sauerkraut or a fermented pickle, or some kefir-based dressing or a glass of kombucha. Et cetera. Canning/cooking destroys some nutrients, fermenting increases some nutrients. I personally need to do some canning and feel there is some safety in having food stored in a variety of ways. What if the power goes out for days? I have my canned foods, and can work at canning up what is in the freezer (we cook with propane.)

 

[Marianne]

The big poultry bones will soften and turn to mush if they're cooked long enough. I did bone broth using turkey bones in my pressure cooker - took 2 full hours. I save chicken bones until I have quite a few, then put them in the slow cooker on low for 2 days. You have to add another splash of vinegar the second day.

You'll find studies to back up whatever your stand is on any given subject. I choose not to worry about it as some vitamin/mineral loss isn't going to kill me. What little I possibly lose in one area is surely made up for in another area.

 

[Boogity]

The big poultry bones will soften and turn to mush if they're cooked long enough. I did bone broth using turkey bones in my pressure cooker - took 2 full hours. I save chicken bones until I have quite a few, then put them in the slow cooker on low for 2 days. You have to add another splash of vinegar the second day.

You'll find studies to back up whatever your stand is on any given subject. I choose not to worry about it as some vitamin/mineral loss isn't going to kill me. What little I possibly lose in one area is surely made up for in another area.

When you save chicken bones do you only save raw bones while you're preparing the meat to be cooked? Or do you also save bones from fried or baked or grilled chicken parts that have been eaten? Yuk, that sounds bad doesn't it!

 

[Neko-chan]

...

 

[big brown horse]

It doesn't bother me if the bones have been gnawed on a bit, it is going to be boiling for 2 days, I think that just about kills any germs. Everyone in my family saves the gnawed bones for me at the end of the meal. Sometimes I freeze the bones until I'm ready to make broth.

I keep 4 quarts canned in the pantry and 4 quarts in the freezer. I leave a 2 1/2 inch head space in the "to be frozen" jars...nothing less, I learned the hard way.

 

[happydog]

I don't understand the problem with pressure cooking here. Pressure cooking raises the temperature to 250 degrees. Yes, that's higher than boiling, but do people who follow this advice never roast or bake at higher temps?

I just don't see why, if you roast a chicken at 350, you have a problem with pressure cooking it at 250. Of course, I understand that higher temps cause a loss of vitamins. So you never roast vegetables in an oven? What about baked foods?

I can understand not pressure cooking foods that are high in vitamins, like vegetables. But if you're talking about meats... Meats are a valuable sources of minerals, but not vitamins. And minerals can't be "cooked out."

Also, I've found that pressure cooking bones gives the best jelling results. And isn't that the main thing you're after from bones?

 

[moolie]

happydog!

A total ditto to everything you said.

(which echoes much of what I posted earlier)

 

[k15n1]

I've read that a good stock comes from starting with cold water and slowly bringing it up to a simmer and holding it there for a relatively short time---maybe a hour. Boiling at high temp for long periods will break the collegene up, which isn't as nice, IMHO. But it's not a religious conviction and I don't think the geletin content of soup stock is a universal value. So, you can do it however, but I like to start by covering the bones and scraps with cold water, 2x or 3x.

 

[Wifezilla]

If I cook a chicken at 350, I am not cooking that chicken until the internal temperature is 350....more like 180. So the roasted chicken never gets that hot.

 

[colowyo0809]

You add vinegar to the broth while cooking and it will leach some of the calcium (and other minerals) out of the bones making the broth more nutritious. Beef bones have a LOT of minerals in them to support a 2000 pound or more beast - chicken's not so much for obvious weight reasons. That is why a chicken bone will get soft.

For the record I usually freeze my bone broth as well AND I just make a batch as I run low. It takes less of my freezer space to freeze the soup bones themselves until I need them.

Thanks to you and everyone else who talked about vinegar on this thread! I had completely forgotten that I need to add the vinegar to get the most out of my bones and such!

And for the record, I toss the bones in as well, raw, cooked and gnawed As BBH said the cooking process should kill the germs after all, it kills everything else on the bones right? (meaning the harmful stuff )

My question is, if you are doing a carcass, whats the best way to go about it? What I've been doing is just thawing out the carcass from our birds, and then cutting off the leg quarters and sometimes breaking the cavity wide open, sticking it in a crock pot, filling with water, and then letting it simmer for 8 hours. Then I pull it out, pull most of the meat off, leave the skin on the bones or put it back in the water, and let it simmer for the rest of the two day period. (and now, adding vinegar ) is this wrong? Also, do I have to use ice cube trays or can I use muffin tins to freeze them? we don't actually have any ice cube trays (our freezer makes the ice) but I froze the zucchini that way yesterday and it seemed to work. I just needed to let them sit for a couple minutes so I could get them unstuck from the pans if I spray the pan with that spray oil will that prevent this from happening?