ADVENTURE'S DOWNUNDER OR FARMING IN PARADISE:An Old Rams view.

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day Gang, So here we are again,this morning its raining lightly and cold and horrible(could be a TV day today).Because there is "no" farm news due to "shopping day "yesterday we can get on to Q & A .Mmmmmmmmmm ,congratulations you two,these are really interesting aspects of "sheep farming".

Q & A:..F/F."How long is lambing season for you?...Everyone I speak to has a different view on this subject,Our system is ,we determine when we want the lambs born first,in the last couple of years we have moved it around a bit,if as is the norm for the district they go for as "early" as they can,but this results in lambing in the "middle" of Winter...This year we opted for the first week of Spring,but this current "patch" of "cold,rainy weather" could make it difficult...In the past we have lambed in the 2nd month of Spring,the weather is "kinder" but you are into the "fly season " when you come to marking and weaning,so whenever you choose its a bit of a gamble.Remember we lamb out in the paddocks with little or no interference........Once it has been decided on lambing date we put the Rams in for 12 weeks,to give every ewe a couple of chances to "join",when the rams come out all the ewe's are shorn and drenched,we try to get them into their "lambing paddock" about a week or so before they should start(except this year some of the ewe's got joined early by some 5mth old ram lambs)...................

"Do you cull ewes that only produce singles?"..The short answer is NO.Because of our "low input" system and the fact that "seasonal conditions" play a big part in our "conception rates",the main thing is "did she rear that single lamb"?If we were (a lot) younger I would infuse our flock with a "high fertility" bred like say the East Friesian",but you need to be aware that triplets come with there own set of problems.If we went down this path I would only infuse the top 25% of the flock,and increase the management of these at lambing.The best of the ewe progeny would be "back crossed" to our "regular rams"...The thing to remember is at what cost does the increased fertility come at,IE:Extra feed,A lot more time and interference at lambing,higher producing pastures(extra fert,seed and working of the soil).....Is it all worth it ?

DL:.."I don't know if this would work for you, but- could older ewes be separated into a small flock- then bred later for lambing times when it would be a bit warmer?....In answer to this I would like you all to consider the following;
Would all this extra work result in higher profit ?
The later you lamb the greater the risk of not "finishing " the lambs and you may have to carry them over the following Winter?
At the moment the prices for Mutton are really high ,so if you "fatten them"(the older ewe's) on the Summer/Autumn and sell them over the "hooks",there is a guaranteed return and that much less pressure on your Winter pastures.
The group of older ewe's I spoke about numbered about 30odd,at the time of joining the "feed outlook" was quite good,so we took a chance on them,if there had been "any" doubt about the season they would have been sold.The reason for the risk was that after 10yrs of drought we were so "under-stocked",it was a chance to re-build some numbers.

I agree with your comments about herd strength,bit I wonder if when the time comes will you be "strong enough",or will "emotions override the sentiments you have "expressed".You can only achieve so much when you purchase breeding stock,first determine what your management style will be and them look for breeders who have the same /similar management outcomes .Quote"The best sheep you will ever have are the one's you "breed "yourself."Its unlikely that you will ever find a breeder with your land type,environment,climate ,etc,so you get as close as you can at the start and breed up from there.

Well I think that's enough for you all to consider for today(my two typing fingers are almost worn out)and I feel the need for a "caffeine hit"...Remember your reactions/views on the above are most welcome,so til next time ,regards from ,T.O.R..................................

 

[dragonlaurel]

Hope you had fun with the retail therapy.

I guess multiple births could be risky for somebody that already had a high stocking rate.

Twins could be good when I'm starting, but high disease and parasite resistance really matter more. I don't have the money to have sheep that need lots of inputs.

I may too much of a softie to do the slaughter, but I can sell ones that don't fit my needs and use the money towards other stock that will. If it would be valuable to other people - fine.
If not it can still fill a freezer. I'm vegetarian but hubby is absolutely Not. He would just need another buddy to help him with processing that day.

"sell them over the "hooks" - What does this expression mean?

I wasn't thinking about when they would be finished. Keeping a handful of sheep for wool- is very different than the big flocks you deal with.
My criteria would be fairly simple.
-Any sheep that just wont thrive with my system- would cost too much for me to keep, so it needs to move on.
-After that- as long as they are make good wool and easily produce healthy lambs, they would stick around.
-A good breeder/Mom with just so-so wool, might raise better lambs than herself. Try with a high quality wool ram once, then decide.
-A ewe with great wool that makes bottle babies- Try to sell her to a crafter to recoup more of the $ spent on her. If that doesn't work - Craigs list (online ad) or - or shear then sell for meat market.
Any ewe that is not a good breeder and has poor quality wool would go to auction/meat sale or hubby's "freezer camp".

Spare rams would get sold unless he was from a different genetic line than most of my ewes. Once I had the herd size right, some wethers with great wool would be fine.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day Gang,welcome back and we hope you find your visit thought provoking and interesting.....................Well so far this morning we have had rain, sun ,cloud and bursts of "stiff breeze",who knows what it will be like in 5 minutes?

Q & A:..DL....Thank you for a well thought out reply.Your pre-requisite of disease and parasite resistance...You may want to examine the origins of your chosen breeds..There are differences in "range land production" v/s "small area production" and an animal that performs well through "evolution" in a range land grazing operation( I have read that in some of your(US) extensive operations that the stock may only graze the same portion of land once a year) may soon fall victim in an semi intensive situation due to a continual challenge of "worms or whatever".It becomes a matter of enough land to rotate the stock past the re-infection phase.This I feel is the reason for the high use of drenches, etc in small holding situations....As an aside when we had the dairy goats,we knew of one dairy when all of the goats were held off the ground on "slated floors" and everything was "cut and carried",it was a huge cost in both time and materials,but they could claim that "NO chemicals " of any type was used on there goat milk production.

"Over the hooks" is a term used down here when you sell direct to an abattoir, you are paid per KG "dressed weight".

Your criteria:1.Careful choosing of both stock and breeder in the first place.Remember that the seller is not "letting" you have their "best stock"(unless you are purchasing their whole flock).So you will be compromising on some things.
2.Your Ram is half your flock,but it may take a few rams and a few generations til you are satisfied(in our own case ,our sheep are the result of 20yrs breeding and we are still making decisions on breeder ewe's and this was after 25yrs of goat breeding as a basis).
3.DL::"Any ewe that is not a good breeder and has poor quality wool would go to auction/meat sale or hubby's "freezer camp". "Try to not make this purchase in the first place".You have to "leave your emotions at home",when you go to "buy" stock.

Well,it looks as though there may be a break in the weather ,so I had better go and have a look at the ewe's,check the rain gauge and give the dogs a little run.Hope you have enjoyed your visit with us ,til next time ,T.O.R.........................................

 

[dragonlaurel]

Hope your rain gauge gave you good news. We had a good storm tonight here.
Thanks for your comments. I had a feeling about "over the hooks" but didn't want to guess wrong.

Q/A
1 - They wont normally sell their best, but healthy stock- from a farm with similar practices is a good starting point. Back when you asked me where the nearest sheep breeders were - I found a few I really liked.
Also found one I wouldn't buy from- because their system was almost opposite of what I want to do. Their vet/med expenses must be huge!

2- I said, I would sell -spare- rams. Just want to avoid accidental inbreeding and bring income.
I would like to begin with bred ewes from a couple lines for the first year.
Then use a different, good ram the next time.
Then work on getting good rams from my own herd.

3- Just realized that I could make a mistake, - or have one born sometime, that isn't good stock. It's better to walk away from a bad situation than pour $ on it. And selling a low quality sheep for anything but mowing or meat would give my farm a bad reputation. That's not worth it.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day Gang,welcome back(friends and ghosts alike),we are glad you could stop by for a visit.The weather of the last week is still with us (its Tuesday morning as I write this).

Sunday:It was another "showery" cold morning ,checked the rain gauge and we have had just over 2 ins now.This rain is going to set us up for Spring very nicely.Jenny and I took a walk around to just "have a look" and take a few photo's,managed to count the 7 lambs and found one "new" one with the other group.It was interesting to see how the water speed control structures have performed.Such is their success that the water speed "leaving our place" is so moderate that there is no sign of any damage at the start of our neighbor's place.

Monday:First thing today is to "check" the fox baits and replace some which have been taken.This walk also gave me an opportunity to see how the water levels were in the dams around the place and we had had some terrific run-off into some of them and the "water-table" has been lifted to the extent that we have a full moisture profile in some of our "improved pasture paddocks"now...After lunch I rang the PP Board to get a new run off baits for Friday as all of the "old" ones will have lost their potency with the rain...We are now about 1 week from the start of "lambing",so there will be busy times ahead...The cloudy morning turned into a showery afternoon,but without hardly any "wind" which is the main thing.I have let the group of ewe's with most of the lambs into the adjoining paddock as its a lot drier underfoot.We are fortunate that our "black hoofed" Suffolks are not "prone" to foot abbess due to the damp ground conditions.

Q & A:..DL.The road to a "closed flock" could take quite a deal longer than you might "suspect".....From memory you are looking at a flock of 10/20 breeders.With a flock this size from a breed which may be quite small numerically,you may find that you narrow the "gene pool" within a few years and this "line-breeding" can start to produce "defects" in both structure and type....As a precursor to purchasing I would request from the "breeders" you have chosen,details of all there breeders (male and female)for as far as they have records,also contact the Breed Society and get as much info as you can about the breed and its origins.......IMO it would be better to purchase 2 ewe's each from 5 breeders than 5 ewe's from 2 breeders,when selecting a ram ,if they will let you have a look at"his "mother and" his" grandmother ,what you are looking for is "true to type"over the three generations as "anyone " can "fluke" a a good ram lamb ,but its the degree of "certainty " in his progeny that you are looking for in your flock.If a breeder is reluctant to give you any information,I would treat them with some suspicion .....The other point I should mention is that the greater the number of "traits",the slower the progress....................EG:I would not try to make gains in both meat and wool at the same time.Your principal aim is the wool craft market ,so I would concentrate on "softness and staple length" without sacrificing structure and "do-ability"(if that's a word).

Well that's about it for another visit,the weather outside still does not look to "flash" ,but I must take the "dogs" for a good run today.........So til next time ,stay safe and we hope to see you again......................................T.O.R.......................

 

[dragonlaurel]

Sounds like you're doing great on the erosion control. You may have some extra stock ponds soon.

I'm glad that you don't have problems with foot/hoof diseases in your herd. This area is pretty moist for part of the year, so I'll have to be careful about that.

Thanks for the advice.

If I can get enough land, I'd like to build up to a flock of 10. Better not overdo since the garden, chickens and a few goats will need looking after too.
If I luck into a big property, 20 would be good once the other projects are well in progress. That would include any males- intact or not, that we keep for wool and pasture maintenance.

I wasn't interested in a closed flock. Just worried that there might not be many rams to pick from locally. That's why I was interested in starting with bred ewes. Then I wouldn't need a ram till after the next lambing. I agree about checking the ancestors, and trying to get from a variety of breeders.

I already found some breed societies for my favorite breeds. Read their websites through, and saved the info. It was lots of reading, and some of the genetic info was hard to follow.
I want to learn more about which traits tend to come from the mom's or the ram's line. I might still use some mixed breeds, but there are certain traits I don't want to lose.

Have you ever used AI with your herd? There's some conflicting info out there about it. :/ There would be lots more variety for me to pick from that way. But I heard the conception rate is lower, and I'd rather have a ram do that job for her.

Yes- focusing on strong health, and good wool would be enough for me. Some lambs or old ewes are likely to end up eaten, but the wool is the real goal.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day Gang,hope you are all well,the last few days have been pretty busy down here,but the weather has been so great(Spring has sprung).

Tuesday:Well when the fog lifted it was a still, sunny day and it got up to about 18C.Set out to check and replace a few of the baits as a few more had been taken since my last check.After lunch took the dogs to a 50ac paddock where no baits have been laid and let them have a good run about the place,they "loved it",because of the rainy days and the baits they have had to stay on their tethers and so the chance to just "gallop" around was such a treat for them Jack especially likes to go exploring when he is off the lead and it takes a few "gruff" calls to get him to come back to me,whereas Ruby just needs to hear her name and she falls into the "heal" position,she is so "beautifully "bred and is one ,if not ,the best dog I have ever owned...Although I must say that when we had the "little farm"(25acs)years ago I had a "red" Kelpie bitch from a pup and when I started training her I sort some advice from an old "dogger"and he gave me the best training advice I ever got ,he said"Don't push to hard,she probably wont come real good until she is about 18 mths old,just get her "working" the stock along a fence line,get her to stay on the "tail" of the mob and keep her between you and the fence line and each day work her up and back the same bit of fence until she's got the hang of it."......She grew into a great worker,bred terrific pups and was still working when she was 15 ,at 12 she was as "deaf" as a post and did all her work off of "hand signals",during her life she learned to work "out of sight",I would take her to a paddock gate and "cast" her out and she would disappear into the "bush"and gather up all the stock in there and bring them up to where I was waiting ,I was so proud of her.She bred a lot of pups and I never had anyone come back to me and say it was "no good".

Q & A:;;DL.All of the work in the creek is designed to manage "water speed",its all about "control not capture".I have often been to farms where they claim to be controlling water damage ,when in fact all they are doing is making "water storage's"under the guise of repairing the environment(they think they are so smart ,but they only "fool" people who have no understanding of water management).I am a little concerned about your "moist periods",can you give a little more info please?......On the closed flock,once you are breeding all of your replacements ,this is in fact what you have.......The use of AI is quite "rare" as far as I know and is only used by research groups (as is embryo transplants )who cannot import live animals due to decease risks,there used to be a bit of it done in the dairy goats to achieve out of season breeding,it was expensive and the results were not that great and I think it did not do the animals much good either.I would much prefer to use ET,if I could afford it ( which I doubt I ever will).

Wednesday:Another foggy morning,but it lifted to a glorious day about 19C at lunch....A check of the ewe's and so many of them are "showing" so I decided to split them into there lambing paddocks.I had one mob of 78 and I split them into 3 groups,so the feed will hold them until most of the lambs are on the ground.The other mob of 60 or so will be left together and there is another lot of about 25 older ones that a due a few weeks after the "main drop"..I want to move the mob of 110 or so lambs but I need to do a little work in the paddock they are to go to first....The roo's had managed to break a bottom wire in a fence-line,so that had to be replaced as well....Its no wonder I have" had it" by the end of the day and fall asleep in front of the TV at night.

Thursday:The usual "shopping day",but I managed to pick-up a new amp and speakers for the computer from a "charity shop" for a few "bucks",have to hook them up tomorrow,as I think the amp is gone in the old set.

Well ,I think that brings everybody up to date with "stuff" on the farm,funny how that story about that old dog just "popped out",I have not thought about her for "ages",anyway I hope you enjoyed her story and we can look forward to seeing you all again in the future,don't forget now "you" are all part of the story and your "comments and opinions" matter to us,so if you have time post a couple of lines to let us know if you are enjoying the journey with us.best wishes............T.O.R..............................

It looks like I have put Q&A in the wrong spot ,but I'm sure you can work it out OK.

 

[dragonlaurel]

Glad that story "popped out". Those dogs sound great. Do your older dogs help train the younger ones to work? It must have been fun watching those dogs enjoy the spring weather.

I realized you were doing erosion control there. It just seemed like you'd gotten lots of rain lately.

This should answer things for you. I looked a while and found a site with our monthly avg rainfalls, in millimeters, since you are used to those.

Mar 111.8
Apr 136.7
May 112.4
June 99.
July 80.6
Aug 70.8
Sept 86.
Oct 105.
Nov 121.

Dec 118.
Jan 92.4
Feb 85.8

Our growing season runs March through early Nov- so I grouped those together.
July and Aug heat is too much for some veggies here, so the gardens don't produce much then.
Hail and sleet are frequent Nov through Feb. We get a few ankle deep snows yearly between Dec and Feb.

About AI - I'd much rather let a ram do that job. I just wish there were more sheep to pick from in this part of the state. Guess I'll have to do some traveling when it's time to get them a boyfriend.

Finding good stock and getting them bred will be easier with the goats. Lots of farms have them here.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day gang,I must say I am surprising myself to post 2 days in a row(chuckle to myself),we awoke this morning to a "super" start of the day ,"sunny and no wind",first thing was to head off to the PP Board to pick-up the fox baits,checked the mail-box while I was in town as well....On the way back I checked our front paddock (about 30 acs)and found we had lost 5 baits from there ,so I replaced them and headed back towards the house,I left the truck at the front gate and walked around about 125 acs checking them as I went,replaced quite a few and by the time that was done it was nearly lunch....On Tuesday I have to take our sheep trailer into town for a safety check to pay our yearly registration...So while I am checking the lights and brakes,one of the turning lights is not working(wouldn't you just know it),so I tow it over to the house to test the globe and check the tire pressures,now its about 1/2 a km to the house and its a bit "bumpy",get to the house and "guess what" the "damm" light is working now........After lunch ,finished resetting the baits on the other80 acs.I have a look at the ewe's and do a bit on "my" vege garden so I can plant some Garlic(first time I have tried this)while I am doing this the dogs have found some old bones and are busy chewing away,as soon as I "picked up their leads",they dropped the bones and ran down to the gate out to the paddocks.......Talk about exercise ,we went for a wander for about 1 hr and them we headed home ,gave them a feed and it was home for a shower and a "beer".......

Q & A:..DL.As a general rule I do not "train" a young pup with an older dog as the pup can pick-up bad habits,lots of guys do though ,but I think its because they are "to lazy"to do it properly....I must say I envy your nice even rainfall,here's what ours has looked like for the last two years.


J F M A M J J A S O N D 2009
39.5 42.5 45 54.25 36 31.5 17.5 8 49 60.25 19.5 57.5

2010
39 146 32.5 9 144.75 16.5 43 36.5 76 59 135 51

The reality is that 2010 was much closer to the normal,but we have not seen it for the previous 10 years.

My first reaction on your search is that I would be looking for "well drained soils",sloping ground and well wooded ridge tops,south facing to dry the slopes with paddocks the full width of the block but quite shallow in depth.This type of setup would allow for alternate grazing of "bands" and give you good water speed control on the slopes.You have expressed a desire to have "hedgerows for fencing"and the bands of timber would also benifiet the pasture as well as acting as stock shelter.......I would consult with your local Agricultural Adviser as to why there are so few sheep?You may be taking on a task which may overwhelm you with its difficulty.....The other thing which would concern me is "fleece-rot" and problems with "feet",country that is continually "wet" usually leads to "foot abscess" and trouble with the hooves.

We get all of our heat in Jan/Feb and this year I am going to try growing under 50% shade-cloth,I use raised beds about 20ins above ground level

Well I think the above should "suffice" for tonight ,tomorrow Jenny wants me to burn a heap of "rubbish" first thing and then "prune" the roses,after lunch I have to check all the groups of ewe's to see if "lambing" has started.Thank you for taking the time to stop by again and we hope you have enjoyed your visit,so til next time ,stay safe .....................T.O.R................................

 

[dragonlaurel]

Glad you're enjoying nice weather again.
Since you mentioned sheep trailers- I've heard some stock gets pretty stressed from traveling. How do you handle that?
Last winter was the first time I tried planting garlic. They didn't get very big but they were yummy. I just planted parts of grocery store bulbs, since it was an experiment.

Yikes - You have lots of difference in your rain patterns! I feel spoiled now.
My garden gets a bit less rain, since we are by the edge of a mountain. Sometimes the rain doesn't make it all the way over. But tornados end up skipping our neighborhood too. That's a fair trade.

Sloping, wooded property is easy to find in this part of the state. The soil is usually clay, but mixing lots of compost into it works well. I use raised beds in my garden spot, but they are shorter. Shade cloth is a great idea.

I tried to call the Ag office today. Thanks for making me try again with them. I just hadn't asked the right person before. There are some sheep closer than I thought. Some 4H kids (ag program) raise them and there is a family near the edge of this county that has sheep. I don't know any more details yet, cause their "livestock guy" was out of the office. I'll have to check about fleece rot, and foot rot too.