An amazing quote.

[On Our own]

Yes, but children who have never worked a day in their lives collect social security if they lose a parent or are disabled. Women who have never earned a paycheck can collect on their spouses earnings. Medicaid and medicare are not related to earnings.

Socialism doesn't mean the gov't makes "giveaways" so I am not sure what you see as the difference. Not trying to argue, just trying to understand your perspective.

 

[Homesteadmom]

The SS a child collects after losing a parent is to help the remaining parent to care for that child financially & is not a full benefit the parent would have gotten. The lost parent paid for those benefits. And the child only gets benefits until they turn 18 or graduate from High School. So not life long benefits unless the child is disabled. A spouse only collects a half benefit.

Socialism is percieved as the gov't makes programs available to all people weather or not they earned it. So those who make more pay more than everyone else & fund everything even if you don't do anything to earn it. Socialism also controls how much business can charge & tells them how much they can do. By telling a pharmacutical company how much they can charge for medication is a socialistic practice(he said that in a speech he would do that if elected). If you go to work & earn a paycheck then take care of yourself. If you choose to sit at home & let the gov't take care of you shame on you. I do believe that everyone should pay equally, meaning there should be the same percentage of taxes for everyone. If a person makes $10k/yr they pay 5% which = $500, a person making $100k @ 5% =$5000. Yes the person making more pays more but they pay the same percentage as everyone else. Now when you do your taxes yes the person making $100k will have more mortgage interest to claim to help reduce their tax liability, but they also aspired to work hard & earn more so they deserve the bigger mortgage. No one is singled out as footing the bill for everyone else then. We all deserve what we work for.

 

[On Our own]

This is where I find it interesting.

Have you ever heard of the Defense Production Controls Act or the Wage Board?

People on here bemoan the fact of the missing lets all help each other attitude of the Depression. They look, somewhat longingly it seems, at the time period after WWII when we were a booming economy.

But, they miss the fact that the years between 1945 and 1955 saw the country's MOST socialistic government. ( By the standards you give._) During those years the government told many corporations what they could produce, how much of it they could produce and even what they were allowed to pay their employees! While we were entering our big red scare years we were very socialistic. VERY.

I am not saying we should go back to that level of government interference, it had some unintended consequences like our bizarre medical system. But, look back at what it was for and what it accomplished. Had some of that not been done, our economy may very well have tanked when the war ended. There were even government written sit coms to persuade families how to live!

Why do so few know this part of their history? At the time no one considered that socialism. They knew and hated fascism and were afraid of communism. Socialism was a vague unknown. But they practiced it on a large scale and did not consider it evil.

 

[me&thegals]

People on here bemoan the fact of the missing lets all help each other attitude of the Depression. They look, somewhat longingly it seems, at the time period after WWII when we were a booming economy.

I am one of those mourning that lost (hopefully not) mentality. I am also one who believes that massive gov't intervention is probably needed right now. But, if people want to fight gov't intervention, I guess the question is are they willing to seriously help their follow citizens? If they don't want the gov't to help and they don't want to help, then what do they propose? Watching tent cities expand and start seeing widespread starvation or crime in America?

 

[Big Daddy]

Socialism is percieved as the gov't makes programs available to all people weather or not they earned it. So those who make more pay more than everyone else & fund everything even if you don't do anything to earn it. Socialism also controls how much business can charge & tells them how much they can do. By telling a pharmacutical company how much they can charge for medication is a socialistic practice(he said that in a speech he would do that if elected). If you go to work & earn a paycheck then take care of yourself. If you choose to sit at home & let the gov't take care of you shame on you. I do believe that everyone should pay equally, meaning there should be the same percentage of taxes for everyone. If a person makes $10k/yr they pay 5% which = $500, a person making $100k @ 5% =$5000. Yes the person making more pays more but they pay the same percentage as everyone else. Now when you do your taxes yes the person making $100k will have more mortgage interest to claim to help reduce their tax liability, but they also aspired to work hard & earn more so they deserve the bigger mortgage. No one is singled out as footing the bill for everyone else then. We all deserve what we work for.

True socialism would have us all getting the same cradle to grave benefits. Jobs that are included in the system such as medical jobs would have set salaries. People working outside the government make what the market pays. Taxes are higher for everybody, as in 40% or so but all medical and dental is paid and if you are unemployed then housing and food is paid. It is paid at a much lower rate than you make with a job but it puts a roof over your head and food in your stomach.

Obama is saying that medications paid for by his health plan will be paid at specific rates same as they are now. I imagine that national health care will put the big insurers out of business.

Across the line tax is a very noble and fair idea. Unfortunately I don't think it would work. Right now the upper 5% earn around 40% of the income in the nation. Right now I'm in the top 13% and I make a lot less than 100k a year. So if everyone paid the same % , that % would probably be in the neighborhood of 40 to 50% of your gross wages. Rich people pay more because they can and it is the only way the country can survive. Reagan proved it and Bush proved it again. Reagan had to raise taxes on the rich before he left office because he spent so much money driving the USSR into bankruptcy. He simply outspent them. The 1.7 trillion deficit that Bush left was because he dropped taxes on the rich when he decided to go to war. The rich can afford the extra. They might have to do with one less house, but it gets confusing when you have too many houses. You never know where you are. It is the working people that made their wealth possible.

 

[me&thegals]

Exactly. If I make $100,000 (which I don't, not even close) and I'm taxed 15%, I can easily live off the remaining $85,000. If you make $10,000 and also get taxed 15%, which seems fair, you are probably not going to be able to make it on $8500 very easily. I am completely more able and willing to make up for your lack of ability to pay. After all, I was there once (and kind of still am, actually) and I'm just glad you're contributing to the economy at all.

 

[Homesteadmom]

This is where I find it interesting.

Have you ever heard of the Defense Production Controls Act or the Wage Board?

People on here bemoan the fact of the missing lets all help each other attitude of the Depression. They look, somewhat longingly it seems, at the time period after WWII when we were a booming economy.

But, they miss the fact that the years between 1945 and 1955 saw the country's MOST socialistic government. ( By the standards you give._) During those years the government told many corporations what they could produce, how much of it they could produce and even what they were allowed to pay their employees! While we were entering our big red scare years we were very socialistic. VERY.

I am not saying we should go back to that level of government interference, it had some unintended consequences like our bizarre medical system. But, look back at what it was for and what it accomplished. Had some of that not been done, our economy may very well have tanked when the war ended. There were even government written sit coms to persuade families how to live!

Why do so few know this part of their history? At the time no one considered that socialism. They knew and hated fascism and were afraid of communism. Socialism was a vague unknown. But they practiced it on a large scale and did not consider it evil.

In 1947 our housing market took a huge downswing & the values of homes went way down. Most likely due to the boom after the war & they built way too many houses for the demand. That market stayed down for about 2-3 yrs before it started coming back up.
A lot of those ideas & programs were laws FDR signed while he was in office, it's just that the effect was not felt until things started improving here. One I ruly do not agree with is how much Dr's can charge Pt's. There is a Dr right now(which I could remember his name) somewhere in the Eastern US, who has a practice with 7000 pt's on record & a few Dr's working for him. Some of those 7000 pt's do not have insurance, so he devised a pilot program that he charges $79/mo to those pt's & they can come see him as many or few times as need be each month. 50 of his pt's have taken advantage of it, he said some do not come for a few months & then get sick & come each week or two till well. No problem just the $79/mo. Guess what the AMA is after him & threatening to take his license away if he does not stop that. The Dr says he has 2 full time billing clerks that do nothing but work on insurance claims 8hrs a day 5 days a week & still are not current on them. For his monthly pay pt's he has 1 person working on it & it is all on computer right now they spend on average 3 hrs a mo taking care of it all. Of course if all his pt's went to this program it would take longer to process it all in the system. Here is a great solution to no insurance in this country & who is trying to shut it down? Gov't from a law back in the 40's!!! So if all 7000 pt's switched to his $79/mo plan he would bring in $553k/mo. He said they were working on a family plan price too before they got the letter from the AMA. Of course this does not cover hospital expenses or testing outside his facility. But at least you would have a dr. to see.
Obama said in a speech I watched during the campaign(I really wanted to hear what he was saying) that drug companies would no longer be able to charge outrageous prices for their drugs. Those costs would be brought under control by him. So families without insurance could afford to get their medications & not have to choose between eatting or their meds. Now I do realize that when meds are first put on the market they are outrageously priced, but it is because of the yrs they spend coming up with the drug & all the testing & FDA hoops. They have to recoup some of that money some how. But after awhile they usually come down in price & are more managable. It was not that copays would be the same for everyone.
Okay off my soapbox now.

 

[On Our own]

I wish the prices of my drugs came down! The price of a med I take more than doubled after its generic became available. I did not do well on the generic so had to go back on the brand name med.

It took two months worth of appeals to the insurance company (during which I had to see the doctor six times due to problems) before they agreed to cover the increased cost, but then they made me pay a higher co-pay for it.

Recently, they "dropped it from their formulary" and back to endless appeals we go.

 

[sylvie]

I can see most any Dr in my area for $85 a visit. I don't need to visit more than 1 or 2 times per year. It makes more sense for me to stay proactive with my health instead of having a Dr fix all the results of my lifestyle choices. A monthly Dr plan of $79 would be a waste of money for me.

I would consider a monthly payment plan that covered most all the extras. Even my vet has these plans available.


On Our Own- contact the manufacturer of the pricey meds directly to see if they offer extra help. You would be surprised how often the brand name maker will work with you. Some require that you spend a certain amount (all scripts added together) before they give you a deal, but anything is better than nothing.

 

[Big Daddy]

I can see most any Dr in my area for $85 a visit. I don't need to visit more than 1 or 2 times per year. It makes more sense for me to stay proactive with my health instead of having a Dr fix all the results of my lifestyle choices. A monthly Dr plan of $79 would be a waste of money for me.

I would consider a monthly payment plan that covered most all the extras. Even my vet has these plans available.


On Our Own- contact the manufacturer of the pricey meds directly to see if they offer extra help. You would be surprised how often the brand name maker will work with you. Some require that you spend a certain amount (all scripts added together) before they give you a deal, but anything is better than nothing.

There are quite a few high deductible plans out there for people like you that don't cost much. Even healthy people have glitches. Then there's always the uninsured person running you down or something. With our current health care in this country that would cause bankruptcy.