Bee~ Journal of then...

[Beekissed]

Yep, Quail, one of those grass fed farms in WI said they only used grain for "baiting" so they can move their cattle easily or catch them when they get out!

Free, you are right about using selective breeding and culling to proceed with animals who thrive on certain feeds. With grain feeding, people usually breed for a narrow shoulder on a calf, or a cow that is an easy calver, or a certain amount of muscling or even marbling. Some of these grass farmers in the northern climes seem to breed for browsers and winter hardiness with the Scotts type cattle. My sis breeds those and they have survived some horrible conditions on her farm....and I do mean merely survived.

I know Salatin crosses Brahma over Angus and some mixed breeds, as he uses a different method to keep his cows warm in the winter besides thick fur or feeding more hay. His cattle are fed under a feeding shed, large lean-to style pole shed, and are given fresh bedding on their manure pack each day. With the addition of carbonaceous material layered into the manure pack, the pack starts to compost, thus heating the whole mix. The combination of dry bedding and a warm bed keeps his cattle from needing extra feed to stay warm and none of his hay is wasted with feeding in the hay bins/troughs. He only uses square bales, as they have a greater air circulation, resulting in less ammoniation, which decreases the nutritive value.

He culls for heat tolerance, parasite resistance and easy keepers on a grass diet. In the end, he develops a herd that not only survives on it, but thrives on grass. He also eliminates any cows that have any trouble calving and doesn't give them a second chance. I think a person really has to be judicious and right on top of things to develop a proper herd for this type of enterprise.

But, man, would it be worth it to be more SS in your farming practices. No big debts for combines, silos, massive big tractors and such for growing your own grain. No buying grain from anyone else. Just feed what you grow and grow what you feed. I like the sound of that. AND, with grass farming the minerals don't get depleted over time, your pasture just gets better and better. But, when growing corn the soil gets more and more depleted over time, necessitating crop rotation, field resting, cover crops of green manure~you name it, corn is a nitrogen sucker.

 

[Farmfresh]

I believe if you fed grass only you MUST feed a high quality hay.

We have two POA (Pony of the Americas) mares. This is a breed that is basically a modern day indian pony. They are in their mid 20's. We live in the Central Midwest where it gets darned cold and we have fed these two mares only grass and hay for the last 18+ years with no troubles and they even stay fat! Now that they are older we are starting to grain a little bit. We keep a mineral supplement for them at all times. When we kept normal horses, we HAD to grain.

I think breed of cattle that is to be grass fed is important, as well as the quality of forage. It is sad but I think a lot of modern breeds (or at least modern breed lines) would indeed starve on a grass only diet. They have been bred to REQUIRE feed. They just don't absorb enough nutrients from a forage diet alone to keep them in adverse cold conditions. Heritage breeds like the Highlander, or modern specialty breeds like the Lowline excel in grass fed conditions. They are bred for it.

Homesteaders should really try to use those breeds that do what WE need them to do. No matter if you are stocking chickens, sheep, pigs, goats or for that grass fed beef.

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

Yes, Lowlines are what I have been reading up on. I am soooo trying to convince DH there is a market for the lowline beef, at the same time trying to convince him that a lowline Jersey will supply all the milk our family needs!

 

[Farmer Kitty]

Sorry, I've been gone. You have stated that grain can be used in small amounts for baiting. That is still graining. It doesn't take mamoth amounts to help them get through the cold. I never stated that it had to be huge amounts. In fact, if you will recall I said, that if to much corn is fed then it could cause problems.

But, it's known that, if to much corn is feed cattle can get fat then it does build up around organs and can cause death, so I will agree that it can be a problem that way but, I feel a responsible person will watch the condition of their cattle and not let it get to this.

I believe, a properly feed cow doesn't require big amounts of grain, just some. especially a beef type cow that isn't in a dairy situation. But, even then you have to watch so they don't get fat.

I do know of a farm that raises corn feed cattle and they don't use antibiotics anymore than I believe you would (pnuemonia, etc.). But, it is a special way of raising cattle and one that needs to be studied and not just jumped into. Example, if they don't get enough roughage it can cause a whole host of problems.

 

[freemotion]

It does not need to be a "right vs wrong" situation. I love the idea of grass-fed everything, and yet I have 5 33-gallon metal cans of grain in my garage for my chickens (some seeds are a natural part of bird's diets, but not close to 100% as we often feed), and my skinny goat is stuffed with grain 3-4 times a day in an emergency effort to get weight on her in case she is pregnant.

There is no question that grass-fed is more ss and sustainable and the end product is healthier for human consumption. I still buy beef from my local grocery store, but do buy buffalo when I can get it, even though they grain them to finish them, it is done in large pastures since buffalo are dangerous when confined. So they get grass and sunshine right to the end, which is also more humane.

I am willing to pay more for this. Most people are not. There is a place in this country for both methods, which makes me sad, but it is a fact. I just wish the cruelty would be regulated out of the industry, like battery chickens. Prices would have to go up, but so what? Eat less processed junk, and the complainers can afford to eat well. No one will die of malnutrition if they can't afford Coke and twinkies because they have to pay more for meat and eggs.

OK, I'm ranting again, what else is new?!?!?

 

[Beekissed]

I agree, FarmFresh! I think some folks are finding this out with their chickens in this cold snap. When I bought chicks this spring, I tried to buy heritage breeds that were cold hardy and most of them with pea or rose combs. I already had some chooks someone gave me that have the large combs and they have done alright except one of my roosters. He is frostbit. It will slough off and he won't have that problem again, I'll wager.

Some of the more ornamental breeds are not cold-hardy and must be kept under special conditions to survive the temps. Now, if this is how folks want to raise chickens and one has the time for it, I say each to his own. Me? I want a hardy, easy care flock and I want to perpetuate that standard. I will cull vigorously to reach that standard, if I must. I will also cull for minimal laying, poor condition on regular free ranging and my feeds, and for temperament.

If I have a chicken who constantly escapes the yard and tears up my landscaping, if she won't stay in a run when its garden time, if she leads others to freedom~I weigh her egg laying abilities against her trouble making propensities. If she isn't worth the trouble or I can't stop the problem, I wring the neck. I don't have the time to waste on breeding this behavior back into my flock.

I also do the same if she is a poor mother.

Roosters are the same. If they are mean~ and I haven't had one I can't persuade to be nice yet~ they will not be putting seed back into my flock. My sister has 3 roosters, one tom turkey, and several geese who attack her as soon as she walks out her front door. She has to carry a buggy whip with her on her farm chores!

 

[Farmer Kitty]

FarmFresh, I do agree! It makes me sick to see cattle confined in those feed lots! It's good for them to be out on the land wandering around even in the winter. Our heifers have pastures and are allowed to get the exercise they need. The cows have a pasture of their own too!

The corn fed farm I refer to also has their's where they can get outside into the sun for some exercise.

 

[Beekissed]

OK, I'm ranting again, what else is new?!?!?

Its okay, Free! A woman must vent on occasion or she will just explode!!!

I like the sustainability, the environmentally friendly, livestock friendly and natural grass-fed way of raising livestock. Not to mention it is the economical choice for me. I could never afford to pay for high price grain and it seems our local farmers are having the same dilemna, as they compete for pricing with the ethanol producers. It just seems logical to me to use what you don't have to compete for~your own resources on your own farm.

I'm not a mushy animal-squeezing radical, by any means, but I like my animals to be raised as natural as possible in an environment suited to their purpose~within reason.

I don't like to see animals dripping with manure in the cold and standing on a field, in a barn or in a feedlot with no dry grass or bedding on which to lie down.

I don't like to see a puppy on a string or confined to a house~tied by the neck for each day of his life or in a crate until his owners have the time to let him out or to defecate, and never to run and play and be a dog every day.

I don't like to see a mini tiger(cat) with his claws ripped out and confined to a house~never to hunt in the cool night air, never to climb a tree or lay in the fresh green grass.

I don't like to see chickens confined to a dirt run that is wet and cold in harsh weather~never to be able to avoid an aggressive flock member, or scratch through leaf litter or scratch for their own food in the soil.

But then, thats just the things I don't like and are pertinent only to me!

Now, you have my rant for the day, free!!!

 

[Farmer Kitty]

Beekissed, you have said that in the future you may get a calf. One word of advise is that calves do better with a companion. I'm not sure if the sheep would fit the bill or not. The only sheep and cattle operation I know keep them separate due to the sheep not being able to have some of the cattle feed. I can't remember what's in it but, it seems to me it's something in the minerals? Just something for you to check out while your in the considering stage.

 

[freemotion]

Hey, that's kinda how I ended up with my two pet pygmies (lard-butts). When we bought the property, we brought my retired horse home from boarding stables, and she desparately needed a companion.....the suburbs are scary!!!! But horses are expensive to keep here, even on one's own property....and I had no pasture then, just a small paddock (she was injured and not allowed to run, so it didn't matter at the time) and lots of woods, which are now pasture. So two horses, two sets of bills for hay, wormer, vet, farrier.....uh, no.

Interspecies herds can work if the species are not too different. The mare was pregnant briefly (couldn't maintain it, tried twice, gave up) and in her raging hormonal stage, decided one of the goats was her baby. They were very close until she died last summer.

Although I would never have just one goat, even with the horse. They need to snuggle together with our cold winters here.

As for ranting, y'all are the only ones who care....and I don't even know if you don't read it sometimes, I just tell myself y'all read it, nodding your heads vigorously in agreement!