Being prepared or HOARDING?

[Wifezilla]

"RBI seeks data to track hoarders
Anindita Dey / Mumbai October 6, 2009, 0:50 IST
Seeks credit details of traders, firms dealing in agri commodities.

Apprehending a rise in prices of essential commodities due to a moderate-to-scanty rainfall in the country followed by floods now, the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) has asked all banks, including co-operative banks, to furnish details on credit to commodity traders and companies using agricultural commodities as raw materials.

This data primarily relate to working capital requirement and other forms of short-term loans. Banks would also have to explain as to why some loans were continuously being rolled over for months together, said sources close to the development.

Banking sources added that the move was aimed to stop hoarding of essential commodities. RBI has also instructed banks to conduct adequate due diligence for credit to such entities if the demand was more than normal. Demand above the normal level will be judged in terms of working capital or other form of short-term loans taken by the company/ trader in the last one or two financial years for similar period.

In early nineties, agricultural commodities were on the sensitive item list and lending rates for such items were regulated by the central bank. However, with interest rate deregulation, rates on such items were slowly deregulated.

Sources said, It is not possible to control credit flow for such items even now. But the rise in prices of essential commodities, especially food items, has failed to moderate. Earlier, there was a fear of drought alone following the scanty rainfall, now there is flood. Thus it is necessary to see that the prices of such items should not go up following supply constraints. Towards this, one of the measures is to control credit for stocking of food items beyond a certain number of days.

It could be mentioned here that the rising food prices have been a major cause of concern for the governments efforts to contain inflation. Recently, RBI had also cautioned banks for checking exposure to real estate companies fearing an asset bubble. The government has also taken several measures on the fiscal side to curtail hoarding in the last two months, especially for items such as sugar and pulses. The ministry of consumer affairs and public distribution had put a stock-limit of 15 days for bulk consumers of sugar. This means a bulk consumer cannot store sugar of more than 15-day requirement. Similarly, every state has been advised to put stock limits for sugar usage.

Last month, the government had advised all importers of sugar and pulses to move out the commodities from godowns at various ports within three days of receiving the imported quantity."
http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?autono=372300

 

[Wifezilla]

"Lately, Pakistan has been reeling from crisis to crisis. Electricity outages in the midst of torrid summer heat infuriated Pakistanis and ravaged the economy. Water shortages and sky-high flour prices ratcheted up the misery. The war against Taliban militancy rages on.

Now there's a crisis that strikes at something Pakistanis young and old, rich and poor, hold dear -- their morning, afternoon and evening tea.

Pakistanis like their tea sweet and often, and without sugar their daily routine just isn't the same. But prices have soared as sugar mills allegedly hoard supplies, leading to chaotic lines at distribution points and another headache for the government.

For a country wrapped up in an existential battle against extremists, the sugar crisis has attained unusual prominence. The issue dominates front pages and leads off newscasts. The timing factors heavily into the play; the shortages hit during the holy month of Ramadan, which ended over the weekend, when people savor a sweet cup of tea after their daily fast. It is also a time when Pakistanis, most of whom are poor, save whatever money they can to buy gifts and entertain, making special desserts, during Eid al-Fitr, the holiday that marks the end of Ramadan.

But what has also spiced up the sugar crisis is its intersection with politics and power. The government has accused mill owners of hoarding to artificially send prices higher. But many of the mills are owned by some of Pakistan's most powerful politicians.

"Out of the 85 sugar mills we have, 33 are either owned directly by politicians or indirectly through relatives," said A.B. Shahid, an economic analyst. "There's every evidence that the sugar cartel has enormous power, and has been wielding it without the slightest fear of administrative action."

Sugar mills hoarding their stockpiles isn't the only reason prices have shot up from an average of about 34 cents for 2.2 pounds last year to a peak of 63 cents this summer. Many farmers switched to wheat this year to capitalize on a government move to raise the minimum price for that crop. That contributed to a drop in sugar cane output, from 4.7 million tons in 2008 to a projected 3.2 million tons this year. Water shortages also have played a role.

Mill owners blame the government. Last year, they said, they knew that farmers would be producing a smaller crop this year and asked the government to import 700,000 tons of raw sugar to keep prices stable. The government balked, said Iskander Khan, chairman of the Pakistan Sugar Mills Assn.

Khan denied that mills were hoarding. "Hoarding means something hidden, kept away," he said. "But this isn't the case with the sugar industry. We declared all of our stocks."

Experts and government officials disagree and say hoarding has aggravated the shortfall. In Punjab province, the heart of Pakistan's sugar industry, police have raided mills and seized thousands of tons of sugar that the government said was being held back to artificially raise prices."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pakistan-sugar23-2009sep23,0,6252552.story

 

[Wildsky]

I see your point, 30 lbs of gumdrops is a bit excessive.

138 lbs of coffee seems seems weird also. I mean, how did he expect to get by with just 138 lbs? He must have intended to use that small of an amount to calm fears that he was hoarding. "Waddaya mean hoarding, I've only got 138 pounds of coffee!" (Heck, I've got more than that and I worry about getting through the end of the month).

 

[Wifezilla]

Hee hee hee

138lbs of coffee would be gone in no time with my husband around.

 

[chickensducks&agoose]

The only things that I am good at canning are Applesauce and Jam.... so I suppose I am guilty of hoarding both... in a real emergency, a long term emergency, maybe we could barter jam? Although My husband swears by his stockpile of Liquor and ammo...

 

[Ldychef2k]

Reading this thread makes me ask, does anyone have the right to tell me what I can and can't buy, grow, create, or store?

If food storage has to be fairly distributed, how is that anything but "take from the haves and give to the have nots"? The theme of both Communism and Socialism.

In a free market, I have the absolute right to hoarde if I want to. Selling my storage at an obscene profit in a time of emergency is wrong and ought to be punished, but if I choose to fill my house from basement to attic with supplies to ensure my family's survival in a crisis and for any length of time thereafter, no one has the right to tell me I can't, punish me if I do, or take it away from me, unless they enjoy having holes in their bodies in sundry places.

I make the investment of time and money to make sure my family and I are covered. I encourage others to do the same. If they don't, they have made that choice and it is not my responsibility to take care of them. I am SELF sufficient, not MUTUALLY sufficient.

I am a little bit fired up. Does it show?

 

[dragonlaurel]

Fired up? Yes, but as long as you stocked up on water, it's okay.

 

[FarmerChick]

Ldy

the original hoarding charge was in time of war.....so it is hoarding against your country in a way. when a country is fighting for its citizens and the citizens are profiting off their own....it is more of a law type situation. Also normal rationing is happening so the country can fight its wars and win, not worry about citizens hoarding and depriving others in times of crisis.....I think that is why you can "have tons of stuff" right now and have no fear from that law actually.

in regular times like now, hoard away....stock away....but if it hits the fan for any reason, and we are in crisis or conflict and rationing is happening--hoarding will become a focus again.

I think the word hoard comes in when the country is in war/conflict or severe crisis.....stocking is during normal times.

seems reasonable actually.

 

[Wifezilla]

I make the investment of time and money to make sure my family and I are covered. I encourage others to do the same. If they don't, they have made that choice and it is not my responsibility to take care of them.

I completely agree....regardless if it is peace time or war time. If my neighbors or relatives want to spend their paycheck on cigarettes, designer clothing, vacations and trips to the hair salon while I spend mine on mass quantities of honey, dried vegetables, beans and lentils, meat, butter, dried corn, quinoa, and salt, why am I suddenly a bad guy and a hoarder when times get tough?

 

[FarmerChick]

it isn't that you can't stock up some stuff even in war time....but if you have alot of money and suck the town dry of one kind of goods, like flour, and no one can get any, then you are hoarding. During war time.

In some countries during that rice ration scare recently, companies were holding rice in warehouses, creating a higher demand and higher price. They were fined and called on their greed.

War time means rationing in the olden days. Remember we haven't been to a real war in ages. There was real rationing, with ration books etc. You could not get things cause everything was going to fight the war. Leather for boots for soldiers, means you can't get a pair of shoes etc.

So put it in context of what it is.....yes you can have your stuff. Yes you can hoard if you want. But in war time if the country needs help, then if the "situation fits" and you are buying up the world and hoarding, you should be called on that. I don't find it unreasonable.

A SS person who stocks is not the hoarder type that would buy an entire warehouse of flour in 1000s of lbs and say, "mine, all mine"

so ya gotta just keep it in the right situation and hoarding could easily happen out there in the cruel world.