Best All Around Dog for TEOFTWAWKI

[lorieMN]

This has not been my experience with bite trained dogs. I think it depends on who selects and trains the dogs as much as finding a "clear headed" one. I don't think calling other peoples experience "misconceptions" is taking a very broad view. We all have different experiences and call it like we see it. I have respect you have known really good bite trained dogs. I have not. I have known the "reject" dogs as they were in rescue and also worked for people who said they trained top protection dogs and sold them to police departments. In both instances, the folks involved would have been better off choosing something else. JMHO. But it isn't a "misconception"......dogs are not created equal as you yourself said, they are not all "clear headed". What happens when someone chooses the wrong dog to train for this? THAT is what I've seen and it wasn't pretty.

I had a bite trained dog that got unstable at about 3 years old. She was the fastest learner and environmentally sound, a really fun dog to work with. But bite trained + unstable/poor judgment is a disaster waiting to happen. I had her euthanized. Heartbreaking but the correct choice.

I wish others in that situation would have the balls to do what is right, rather than pass them off as a "wash-out" to an unprepared rescue group.

There are VERY FEW dogs that can do bitework. Training a less able dog is more than irresponsible.

So you have seen what I am talking about. I knew some folks who were very convincing that they knew what they were doing, but after working there a year, the facade wore quite thin and I grew tired of hiding the dogs and comforting the wounded, among other problems I had with that job. It was really a method of selling their puppies they were breeding for more money more than anything else.
They did NOT work with GSDs however, they had a different breed. I personally have seen another, much better trainer with GSDs doing bite work and doing it correctly, love her dog, but it is so hard for the lay person to be able to tell between the first kind of trainer and the second one. Had I not been an employee of each one I would never have known there was such a difference.

I agree with you 100% on this..some people cannot handle a chihuahua,,they certainly shouldnt get a large bite trained dog,,I have seen good dogs turn into terrible dogs just from the person that owns them,,they have no business owning a dog like that,or horse or whatever..I know a guy that has a K-9 dog,he is beautiful! but you go over there and the dog is a maniac because this guy has no clue on how to control him,he cannot even get the dog to sit..but he works for me awesome,he is not a bad dog at all,the problem is this guy has a very soft personality and the dog plays on that,the dog thinks he is the pack leader and the guy allows it to happen,even after being told many times how to fix the problem,he lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere so it works out ok for him,the dog runs the farm and does whatever he wants and the guy has a pretty dog to look at.These types of people are the reason IMO that 95% of the dogs are in rescues and shelters,most are not bad dogs,just weak owners,

 

[savingdogs]

Yes, and many thrown away dogs are very very good.

The benefit of buying a pedigreed dog as opposed to working with a rescue is you get a dog that SHOULD follow certain traits and you get to start with a clean slate to some extent (although each dog is still an individual). But what you do with that clean slate is what makes the difference. But personally I think rescued dogs bond harder to their owner and can be among the most devoted.

Choosing a breed designed and bred for the same purpose that you intend to use it is a very good choice and people often do not think about that and instead think about color, coat, size, etc.

In my experience the personality is the most important thing and people would be better served forgeting a dogs looks entirely except to evaluate its suitability to tasks. And if you want your dog to live outside, you need to choose one with nice long hair. If you want a house dog, pick a short haired one or be resigned to dealing with hair all over your house (like me).

 

[Wallybear]

I used to be a big dog kind of guy. Then after my wife got a Chihuahua, I learned to love them. They are better at being alert than any other dog I have owned, they eat very little and are relatively low maintenance. You do not have to worry about being sued if they bite someone. Also a Chiuauhua is not usually considered a threat and likely to get shot.

They not be for everyone, but I have come to love them and will continue to have one even if it all hits the fan.

 

[tortoise]

I used to be a big dog kind of guy. Then after my wife got a Chihuahua, I learned to love them. They are better at being alert than any other dog I have owned, they eat very little and are relatively low maintenance. You do not have to worry about being sued if they bite someone. Also a Chiuauhua is not usually considered a threat and likely to get shot.

They not be for everyone, but I have come to love them and will continue to have one even if it all hits the fan.

I read a news story a few years back about someone being seriously injured by a pack of chi's.

I'm a little petrified of them. I have NEVER met one that did not either bite me or try to bite me.

 

[Denim Deb]

RU used to have 4 of them, now she just has 2. And, while I can't stand them, they've never bit me.

 

[Henrietta23]

I grew up terrified of my great great aunt's chihuahuas. They hated children specifically. It was the spider monkey that scared off the guy who broke in one day.

 

[pinkfox]

oh i wish yall could meet our chihuahuas, they make everyone, even wowie HATERS just fall in love...
the male is a grumbler...but not a fighter...more a your in my home an dim going to complain about it...kind of dog, but the females Love EVERYONE...
i used to show the oder female but it got to the point she wouldnt stand on the table anymore, she was too busy trying to give kisses and roll over for tummy rubs...

best alarm dogs and amazing cricket catchers

 

[tortoise]

I've been on a working dog forum for 5+ years. There is a man who is an awesome trainer, loves and respects his dogs. Here is a timely comment from him that applies to the previous conversation about alert versus protection versus bitework versus gun-criminals.

This comment is out of a conversation about training personal protection dogs and how much pressure/force is too much. Training to sport rules versus training every possible scenario.

A bad guy with a gun need not even kick a dog, but that is not the point here. The point here is a dog , any dog, to take the bad guy and occupy his time in order to get you and your loved ones to safety or give you time to get to a weapon in order to protect all of the above. I don't ever expect to see that dog alive again. One more time, I don't ever expect to see that dog alive again. What I do expect is to kill or get out of harms way with my loved ones.

I pray that that dog will take a kick to the head or two or three just as many as it takes. The bad guy will be spending too much time with him to worry or even wonder what I'm doing. Lock and Load.

Sad, true. I know he doesn't take his comment lightly and he is fully aware of the enormus cost and time to train a dog for this. He has strong, affectionate bonds with his dogs.

If a biting dog was safe to live with (because that should be, but isn't always true) and it got you a little bit more time to protect your family, would you want it?

I say yes because I've been around GOOD bite trained dogs. But SHTF I know I would need more than one.

 

[hiker]

WOW! Such great topics here.

Just to clarify-Tortise- I wasn't really looking for an attack type dog at all. More of a bark and growl type of thing.

I agree that you have to look at the individual dog, but having a breed(s) or mix in mind helps to narrow the field, which is why I asked for breeds.

Seems to me that a couple of dogs might just fit the bill. Since I am not a little dog type, most a little hyper for me, I have cats to do the ratting/mousing jobs. Also, when I worked in pediatrics, most dog bites were from smaller dogs, esp cockers. When big dogs bite, the bite is worse, but they didn't seem to be as frequent. The little dog also seem to go for the lips/mouth more. Not a sceintific study, just my personal experience.

I had really discounted the lab as being too laid back, but there are some good points.

The whole insurance thing is an issue. We had bassett hounds when we got our pollicy, so that wasn't an issue and no one has asked for an update. On paper, our St Bernard/Akita is two of the typically banned breeds, but he is much less of a bite risk than our bassett hounds. Again, you have to look at the individual dog and its background, but insurance companies can't do that so they go by breeds.


If I had to make a decsion today, I think that I would probably go with a pittie or a rottie with good breeding.

 

[MastiffLady]

If I could only choose one dog I would go with a Mastiff breed. They are great guardians, and do well as a pack dog, or for carting. Of course my opinion is a little biased .

I find having Miniature Schnauzers and a Mastiff is a perfect mix. My Mini's herd the chickens, hunt moles, and chase rabbits out of the yard. When it comes to intruders/ people in our yard who aren't supposed to be there, the Mini pack will bark and bounce, distracting the intruder while my Mastiff sneaks up from behind.