Can you really be Earth friendly if you have children?

[Beekissed]

I don't normally think of children as a natural resource or a liability, really. I view them as gifts from God, which are on loan to me until I can return them from whence they came. I think one has just as many children as God had planned you to have and no more. The best one can do, at the end of the day, is to be able to say to the Good Lord, "I did my best."

The rest is just irrelevant to me.

 

[FarmerChick]

I like your posts Cassandra!

 

[reinbeau]

Older thread, I know, but....

What people need to keep in mind is that despite being all-powerful (in their own heads) humans, we *are* part of nature. We're flesh and blood, we bleed if we're cut, we are born and we die. We are not omnipotent. So to the question "Can you really be Earth friendly if you have children?" I say of course you can! We're all part of the circle of life - and to complete that circle we need to have children. Now as to the arguments that we should or shouldn't because of this or that, that's all intellectual twaddle used for people to justify their stands. Have kids if you want. Don't if you want. Just don't think because you don't you're somehow morally superior. You aren't saving anything, and you definitely aren't passing on yourself, your genes, your 'you' to future generations, so in a sense, you eliminate yourself. In some cases that's not such a bad thing

 

[me&thegals]

I guess I don't understand this attitude of "My reasons for having kids are perfectly reasonable" but "other people's reasons are intellectual twaddle."

Aren't both decisions equally personal, private and defensible?

What do you think about the explosion of the world's population, its growing practice of eating meat (especially now in India and China), our decreasing fertility and soil quality, and our ability to feed all these folks? I've been reading way too much about the state of food security to feel like we can continue to populate the earth at this rate without a thought. So, sure, our kids will probably do just fine. But what about the resources they are using that will disallow children in developing nations to have enough to eat? What about the 10 million children that starve to death every year? It insults me when I'm told that thinking about this and making my family size/formation decisons based on this is a bunch of hoo-doo, left-wing nutso, self-defense babble. Maybe it is not conceivable to some people that some of us would have loved much larger families but for some reasons (including all the above) are making the sacrifice of keeping them smaller or enlarging them in ways that don't include bringing new lives into being.

Yes--we are part of nature. In nature, animal populations that sky rocket out of control end up dying of disease and starvation. Sounds awfully familiar for great parts of this earth...

Okay--I will probably regret this post and will certainly get angry reactions to it, but some of the previous comments really irk me!

ps--I don't consider myself "morally superior," just someone holding a view that should be as free from attack as someone who chooses to have 10 kids. It is PERSONAL! And, I have never criticized anybody choosing a larger family...

 

[reinbeau]

Boy, you sure put a lot of words into what I said - which is exactly what I mean.

I don't give a fig how many kids you have. Or don't. That means I don't have to justify why I choose to have two, eight or eighty. Of course if you can't support them then you shouldn't have them - but that again is a personal decision.

Of course the decision to have children, or not, is your own choice. But then you go into why people should limit themselves. So what is it? It's either personal choice or it isn't. All made without trying to make anyone else feel guilty for their own choices.


And as for being part of nature - when a creature gets too large for it's environment, something usually wipes them out. Ala the gypsy moth up here in the Northeast. I expect the same thing will happen to human populations that get too large to sustain themselves. It's a natural cycle. Take away all our 'intellect' and see that that's really all it is. A natural cycle. And yes, I really did make the analogy between humans and a moth. Because in the grand scheme of all things nature, both are as significant. Or not.

 

[me&thegals]

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was going into reasons why other people should limit themselves. I was trying to explain why I don't feel comfortable with a large brood right now. I have plenty of friends/family with 4+ kids and love their rowdy, big families My husband and I each come from a family of 6. I have zero criticism for that. It's just not what I feel comfortable with for myself.

You're right about natural populations. I just think that we as humans with our brains CAN choose to limit our populations or just wait and let it happen through natural processes.

Either way--large family, small or no kids at all--back to the original post: Any family can live light on the earth and teach their children to not consume as heavily as typical Americans consume...

Here's a peaceful cyber-greeting for anybody I was peeved with :

 

[reinbeau]

And here's one right back at you. I'm sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, I don't mean to. Anyhoo.....

Yes, we do need to teach the children we raise (no matter how we acquire them ) to live lightly on the earth. I have tried to do that, but my eldest son (28) has moved into The Big City, and lives nothing like he did here, which isn't a bad thing, but it's definitely not a choice I envisioned for him. But he does live lightly, he has no car, is totally dependent on public transportation, lives in a one room apartment and unfortunately is alone, I have no prospective grandchildren on the horizon! I hope someday to have them, little kids to follow Gramma around in the garden...

 

[werblessd1s]

My Mom says all the time how she wouldn't have children with the world like it is now and that she fears for her grandchildren.

 

[me&thegals]

And here's one right back at you. I'm sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, I don't mean to. Anyhoo.....

Yes, we do need to teach the children we raise (no matter how we acquire them ) to live lightly on the earth. I have tried to do that, but my eldest son (28) has moved into The Big City, and lives nothing like he did here, which isn't a bad thing, but it's definitely not a choice I envisioned for him. But he does live lightly, he has no car, is totally dependent on public transportation, lives in a one room apartment and unfortunately is alone, I have no prospective grandchildren on the horizon! I hope someday to have them, little kids to follow Gramma around in the garden...

I've always wondered what I would do if my kids threw away everything I had taught them and chose a completely different way of life. I know I'd had to accept it, but still... How do you learn to do that?

 

[reinbeau]

You really don't have much choice. Hopefully what they choose to do isn't wrong or harmful - just different from what you expected. You sound as though your children are young - wait til you go through the teenage years. They start making their own decisions, some of them pretty stupid, sometimes, but they are all their own - and it stays that way. That's what we want, though, really, to get them to the point where they do make their own decisions and stand on their own two feet. I don't like some of the choices my eldest has made, but I am proud of my boys, they're good kids who went through some bad times here (divorce) but kept their heads on their shoulders and moved on.....it's the best I could ask for.