Candling eggs?

[Icu4dzs]

OK, so I've started my first batch of incubator eggs and I am now at about day 16 or (17 if you count the day I put them in as day one.)
So, all this science training I've had all my life and something this simple appears to elude me. Even the book only says to do it, but not how to do it.
So here goes:
a) How does one "candle" and egg? and
b) what should I see?
c) What should I expect at this time of the process?

I tried using a 3 watt LED flashlight and the light did not seem to penetrate the shell. OK so how many lumens does an egg need to have to be "seen through" and what is the proper procedure for this activity?

Patiently waiting a reply I remain
Frustrated in SDAK
P.S. Please don't send me to BYC...I'd be lost there.

 

[mandieg4]

I'm in the same boat. On day 9 I was able to see which ones were empty and some that had veins, but when I candled on day 14 I didn't see a thing. The eggs are all dark. I wish I would have used white eggs on my first batch so I kind of had an idea what to look for.

 

[patandchickens]

Darkened (or totally-dark) room.

VERY VERY VERY bright light -- you can put a high-wattage bulb in a box with a smaller-than-egg's-end sized hole cut in one place, but I prefer a small LED flashlight, the good kind. I believe mine claims something like 30+ lumens? Works much better than run-of-the-mill flashlights, which are ok on white eggs but suck on colored ones.

(e.t.a. - diameter of flashlight lens must be smaller than egg diameter, OR cut a smaller-than-egg hole in something totally opaque and stick it on the front of a larger-lensed flashlight. You have to be able to have the flashlight shining ONLY thru the egg, not around it as well.)

So, in dark room, take just 1 egg out of the incubator and hold the flashlight right smack dab pressed against the egg, no gaps, rim of lens totally flush with eggshell.

One thing you will notice is that if you move the flashlight around to the right locations on the egg, you can clearly see the air cell (usually somewhat 'tilted' at the large end of egg) as being distinctly brighter and clearly separated from the rest of the egg. When you've done this more, you can use observations of air cell size to make deductions about whether your humidity was right; for now, just know that's the air cell

If the whole rest of the egg glows, brightly if it is a white or pale-tinted egg, less brightly if it is a darker brown or blue egg --- this means the egg did not develop, either b/c it was not fertile or b/c embryonic development did not make it past the first few days.

If most of the egg glows but there is a distinct small dark shadowy bit in there, it started to develop but (at day 16-17) should be a lot bigger than that so most likely it quit after a week or ten days so it is probably out of the game too.

If most of the egg is dark, except for the air cell and a little bit of area around the otherwise dark and blobby mass, you have a basically appropriately-growing embryo in there. If you are lucky you will see it move; but sometimes they don't and that does NOT necessarily mean they're dead.

You will read some instructions that say "break out the ones you think are dead, so you can see what they actually look like inside and learn how/why/when they may have died". I do not recommend this, as a number of the ones you may THINK are dead tend to turn out to have actually been perfectly good developing embryos right up to the moment you cracked open the shell. THis is depressing and wasteful Yes, dead eggs CAN explode messily in the incubator but by all accounts that is actually extremely rare, especially if the eggs and incubator were pretty clean to start with.

Thus I would suggest leaving EVERYTHING in the incubator, except perhaps the totally-glowy obvious-nonstarters, until you are certain that no more can possibly hatch. THEN you can break open the dead ones and see what was up inside.

I know you said 'don't send me to BYC' but go look at the stickied thread at the top of the Incubating and Hatching Eggs section, that has several posts with EXCELLENT PHOTOS of candling eggs on different days. It will give you a much better idea of what to look for.

But, again, I would suggest taking it as just "information to ruminate on" at this stage, don't be giving up on eggs that don't look like the pictures b/c some of them will probably still be good.

And try not to have the eggs out of the 'bator for very long, nor open the 'bator too many times (b/c of making it hard for it to stay up to temp)

Next time, you might consider candling a couple times a week starting at day 5 or so, as it is just TOO TOO COOL to see the actual beating heart in the early embryo, and see how its shape and features and behavior change as it develops. I am serious, this is just WAY cooler than biology class LOL

(edited to add: what mandie said about the value of tossing a few white eggs into the 'bator even if you don't want the chicks all that much [can always make fried chicken 3-4 months later!]... they are much easier to candle than colored eggs and better to hone your eye on. Failing that, get the highest-lumens flashlight you can get, and don't expect to see much inside dark-brown or really blue eggs)

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[freemotion]

My dad is going to make me his own version of this one http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/econo_egg_candler.html with a wooden box instead of metal.

 

[big brown horse]

We used to put the egg on top of a toilet paper roll.

eta: and then put it on top of a flashlight.

 

[freemotion]

I suggested that to my dad....it was too simple. He is always itching to make it better. You'd think we were going to candle all day every day!

 

[Icu4dzs]

Darkened (or totally-dark) room.

VERY VERY VERY bright light -- you can put a high-wattage bulb in a box with a smaller-than-egg's-end sized hole cut in one place, but I prefer a small LED flashlight, the good kind. I believe mine claims something like 30+ lumens? Works much better than run-of-the-mill flashlights, which are ok on white eggs but suck on colored ones.

(e.t.a. - diameter of flashlight lens must be smaller than egg diameter, OR cut a smaller-than-egg hole in something totally opaque and stick it on the front of a larger-lensed flashlight. You have to be able to have the flashlight shining ONLY thru the egg, not around it as well.)

So, in dark room, take just 1 egg out of the incubator and hold the flashlight right smack dab pressed against the egg, no gaps, rim of lens totally flush with eggshell.

One thing you will notice is that if you move the flashlight around to the right locations on the egg, you can clearly see the air cell (usually somewhat 'tilted' at the large end of egg) as being distinctly brighter and clearly separated from the rest of the egg. When you've done this more, you can use observations of air cell size to make deductions about whether your humidity was right; for now, just know that's the air cell

If the whole rest of the egg glows, brightly if it is a white or pale-tinted egg, less brightly if it is a darker brown or blue egg --- this means the egg did not develop, either b/c it was not fertile or b/c embryonic development did not make it past the first few days.

If most of the egg glows but there is a distinct small dark shadowy bit in there, it started to develop but (at day 16-17) should be a lot bigger than that so most likely it quit after a week or ten days so it is probably out of the game too.

If most of the egg is dark, except for the air cell and a little bit of area around the otherwise dark and blobby mass, you have a basically appropriately-growing embryo in there. If you are lucky you will see it move; but sometimes they don't and that does NOT necessarily mean they're dead.

You will read some instructions that say "break out the ones you think are dead, so you can see what they actually look like inside and learn how/why/when they may have died". I do not recommend this, as a number of the ones you may THINK are dead tend to turn out to have actually been perfectly good developing embryos right up to the moment you cracked open the shell. THis is depressing and wasteful Yes, dead eggs CAN explode messily in the incubator but by all accounts that is actually extremely rare, especially if the eggs and incubator were pretty clean to start with.

Thus I would suggest leaving EVERYTHING in the incubator, except perhaps the totally-glowy obvious-nonstarters, until you are certain that no more can possibly hatch. THEN you can break open the dead ones and see what was up inside.

I know you said 'don't send me to BYC' but go look at the stickied thread at the top of the Incubating and Hatching Eggs section, that has several posts with EXCELLENT PHOTOS of candling eggs on different days. It will give you a much better idea of what to look for.

But, again, I would suggest taking it as just "information to ruminate on" at this stage, don't be giving up on eggs that don't look like the pictures b/c some of them will probably still be good.

And try not to have the eggs out of the 'bator for very long, nor open the 'bator too many times (b/c of making it hard for it to stay up to temp)

Next time, you might consider candling a couple times a week starting at day 5 or so, as it is just TOO TOO COOL to see the actual beating heart in the early embryo, and see how its shape and features and behavior change as it develops. I am serious, this is just WAY cooler than biology class LOL

(edited to add: what mandie said about the value of tossing a few white eggs into the 'bator even if you don't want the chicks all that much [can always make fried chicken 3-4 months later!]... they are much easier to candle than colored eggs and better to hone your eye on. Failing that, get the highest-lumens flashlight you can get, and don't expect to see much inside dark-brown or really blue eggs)

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

Thanks so much. This really helps. I have 3 thermometers in there and they are all different readings. What is the RIGHT reading for this?

The video is good but I guess I didn't see any difference until the last one. I have the stuff to build one of those. Kinda simple and obviously very handy. My eggs are colored blue/green and a few brown.

Again,
thanks so much
Trim sends

 

[patandchickens]

have 3 thermometers in there and they are all different readings.

LOL. Yes, that happens

What is the RIGHT reading for this?

Honestly it depends on what kind of incubator you have and where the thermometer is located and where the eggs are located and so forth. If it is a commercial model with no modifications, the mfr will tell you what temps and humidities you should shoot for. If it is homemade, or modified, though, you are kind of on your own.

You can look at the 'book values' for temperature and aim for that, and try by various methods to guess which thermometer is the most correct, but IMHO it really boils down to:

The first time, do the best you can. WRITE IT ALL DOWN. Then see what happens with the hatch. If it worked well, try to duplicate the same conditions again. If hatch was not so great, try to infer from your results what exactly the problem was -- too hot, too cold, too dry, too little ventilation, what. How many eggs croaked at what stage and in what shape, and what day and in what shape the successful ones hatched, will give you clues to this. Then adjust conditions accordingly for your next hatch. Lather rinse repeat til you are getting reliable hatches.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat