Dr Oz exposes what's in factory chicken!

[bibliophile birds]

Have you ever noticed how much WASTE there is? How many beef cattle could be fed on with grasses from road and highway ditches?! Think about it. How many ACRES of grassy ditches and medians are in your county?

so true. i always think the same when i see acres overrun with kudzu. i just imagine all the fat, happy goaties we could be feeding while eradicating that nasty plant.

 

[Shiloh Acres]

Well ... I was just thinking to myself. I'm sure not going to argue with Salatin. I suppose simple statistics would answer the question. I am not sure how man people live in the US now, or how many farmable acres are available. Those two figures and a quick calculation would give a good answer.

All the corn wasted on junk -- now there's a good point I hadn't thought of! That alone is a huge factor.

One thing I CAN appreciate is the point about wasted grasses. I was surprised and very glad to see that along the roads with enough median, someone BALES the median and ditches. I don't know if it's leased to farmers or what. But it is we-used land. Though I personally don't feel good about highway emmissions going into food producing animals.

It's a huge issue. I don't have the expertise to consider it on a national scale. Like I said, I'm just working on producing my own. The rabbits have filled half my freezer so far, along with wild pig. The wether was spared. Chickens seem to cost more per pound and more work and time to raise for meat than rabbit or goose, but I'm working on it. And my boss offered me quail a couple days ago.

still hoping to produce more chicken next year, since that's normally what I mostly eat.

 

[Dunkopf]

The USA has a population density of 84 people per square mile. That's about 8 acres per person.

Manhattan has a population density of 71,000 people per square mile.

So whoever Salatin is I would like to ask him how he would feed the population of Manhattan with small family farms putting out say an avg of 250 eggs per day. That's if you have about 300 chickens. Or 200 or 300 meaties every 6 weeks.

As evil as it is factory farming is a necessity and will only get bigger as the population continues to increase. Natural farming is fantastic for lower yields. I would much rather eat the stuff I raise or a local farmer raises. I am not the masses though. Most people can't pay 10.00 for a chicken that was raised in a coup that had 4-6 sf per chicken and was allowed to go outside and play all day in a nice run. Those that can shop at Whole Foods and don't know what they are actually getting but give it a college try.

Eliminate factory farming and people start starving. It would be great if local ordinances allowed people to keep chickens though. Fact is that a lot of people don't want chickens in their neighborhood. Not just because of the roosters either. That's one of the reasons we moved out to the country. We like to be able to do what we want with our property and raise whatever animals we want.

 

[bibliophile birds]

Eliminate factory farming and people start starving.

that would be true if we ditched factory farming all the sudden one day without sustainable systems being in place already. otherwise, people don't starve because they've been reeducated about the real cost of food: how long it takes to grow, how much it really costs to grow, how much of it we waste, when it's in season.

you wouldn't believe how much of the food we grow and produce is instantly shipped overseas. and believe me, most of those people would rather not have our goods in their markets. but they don't have a choice because our goods are so artificially cheap that their homegrown goods can't compete. (sound familiar?) there's all this talk about how the US has to feed to world, but the pundits don't stop to realize that we have to feed the world because we destroyed local food economies. fix that problem (which would in turn fix tons of other problems) and then we suddenly have a huge surplus of food.

 

[Buster]

Joel Salatin seems to think that we can continue to feed ourselves without nasty factory farming.

And he is right. Small and medium farms using ecologically sound and humane practices can feed the world. In fact, it is the only thing that can, over the long term.

It is call sustainable because it can be sustained indefinitely. Factory and chemical ag just plain can't, because they ain't.

 

[Buster]

So whoever Salatin is I would like to ask him how he would feed the population of Manhattan with small family farms

If you knew who he was, you would know how he could.

In addition to Bib's point about exports, I would say that most "food" grown in this country goes into processed crap, including but not limited to items like pop and highly processed foods containing HFCS and other undesirables.

The notion that it takes a factory farm to produce enough food is nonsense propaganda spewed forth by Big Food.

 

[Dunkopf]

So whoever Salatin is I would like to ask him how he would feed the population of Manhattan with small family farms

If you knew who he was, you would know how he could.

In addition to Bib's point about exports, I would say that most "food" grown in this country goes into processed crap, including but not limited to items like pop and highly processed foods containing HFCS and other undesirables.

The notion that it takes a factory farm to produce enough food is nonsense propaganda spewed forth by Big Food.

Well I guess I'll have to get to know him. That way I can be a believer too.

I can see growing enough grains on small farms to support the country. Obviously there isn't enough money in it to support the farmers though. Otherwise we would still have millions of small farms. As for chickens and eggs. Not even Joe Salatin will make me believe that one.

So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[bibliophile birds]

Obviously there isn't enough money in it to support the farmers though. Otherwise we would still have millions of small farms.

it's the system that made it financially disastrous, not farming itself. Earl Butz, who was Secretary of Agriculture from 1971to 1976, destroyed the financial viability of small farms.

In his time heading the USDA, Butz revolutionized federal agricultural policy and reengineered many New Deal era farm support programs. His mantra to farmers was "get big or get out," and he urged farmers to plant commodity crops like corn "from fencerow to fencerow." These policy shifts coincided with the rise of major agribusiness corporations, and the declining financial stability of the small family farm.

basically, he changed our farm bill system from one that protected small farmers when the market price was driven down to one that pays farmers to overproduce (keeping the market price constantly and artificially low) so that their cheap grains could be used in industrial food production and to use grain prices as political bribery.

In 1972, Russia, suffering disastrous harvests, purchased 30 million tons of American grain. Butz had helped to arrange that sale in the hope of giving a boost to crop prices in order to bring restive farmers tempted to vote for George McGovern into the Republican fold

As for chickens and eggs. Not even Joe Salatin will make me believe that one.

the stocking rate for pastured poultry is about 500 birds a year per acre. that means that you could, theoretically, raise 421,500 pastured chickens on Central Park's 843 acres each year. and that land would actually be healthier for having been used that way. it's definitely doable. it just takes thoughtful management and for people to value sustainability.

 

[Dunkopf]

So that comes out to about 1/2 of an egg per year for the residents in Manhattan. I'm not too sure they could live on that. On top of that you would take away one on the major places that they have to relax and exercise. I imagine if I had to live in a 400sf apartment in a 50 story building, it would be nice to go for a walk in the park instead of looking at a bunch of chickens.

Edited for content

 

[Wifezilla]

MONOCULTURE (feed lots, warehoused chickens, single crops using pesticides and artificial fertilizers) might not be able to be done in a sustainable manner with the necessary yields. POLYCULTURE doesn't have the issues that monoculture does. Hence POLYFACE farms.

Dunkopf, meet Joel Salatin
http://www.polyfacefarms.com/products.aspx

Also, this local farm 5 minutes from me follows his practices...
http://www.ppcf.org/Venetucci
They purchased a couple of ducks from me this Spring.

And this shows you what can be done in a very small space...
http://urbanhomestead.org/

And here is another example of polyculture being vastly superior and providing a much higher yield than monoculture...
http://www.westonaprice.org/farm-a-ranch/447-one-bird-ten-thousand-treasures.html
http://permaculture.org.au/2009/03/07/the-one-duck-revolution/
Instead of just rice, they get rice at an increased rate, eggs and duck meat without additional inputs and without the chemicals.