Feedback on this root cellar design?

[jpjuniper]

Thanks to everybody for the replies and feedback.
Especially Farmfresh, I really appreciate the concerns you brought up... makes me think.

1. Depth - it really does freeze down to 2-3 feet deep here. It's 30 below for weeks on end. I spoke with some locals who have root cellars and they've had things freeze when only covered with 2-3 feet of soil. I WISH I didn't have to dig so deep!! And HOPEFULLY I won't hit bedrock, or I might just have to re-think the whole plan!

2. Ladder - I agree it's not ideal. My idea was to have a pulley set-up with a bucket - like a well. Climb down, load the bucket, climb up, pull the bucket up. I live alone and even if my household expands to include a partner and a kid, I don't think it'll ever be a high volume cellar. HOWEVER, I agree, that a ladder is still pretty inconvenient. I thought about tilting the vertical culvert to accomodate stairs, but I'll still be hunched over and then the pulley system won't work.
I'm still weighing the pros (convenience) and cons (construction) of this issue... This is definitely my biggest issue though - I don't want it to be such a pain to access that I never use it!

3. Drainage - I like that idea, a lot. The bed of gravel and drainage holes are simple and easy to execute. Thanks.

4. Wasted space - I think I'm ok with it being small, since it's just me. And, I'm not a farmer - maybe I'll have a few plants eventually - but this is more for use as a fridge and storage for me since I won't have electricity and won't alway be able to get to the store. Interestingly enough, the Bubel book actually recommends a curved ceiling in some of the designs to prevent condensation.

5. I'll look into the fiber cement SIPS panels... never heard of them and not sure how easy they'll be to find in Alaska. Are they load-bearing for the ceiling? That was my main challenge and reason for going with the culvert idea - finding something that is easy to install yet can bear the weight of 4' of earth.

Thanks again for all the input!

 

[Farmfresh]

2. Ladder - I agree it's not ideal. My idea was to have a pulley set-up with a bucket - like a well. Climb down, load the bucket, climb up, pull the bucket up. I live alone and even if my household expands to include a partner and a kid, I don't think it'll ever be a high volume cellar. HOWEVER, I agree, that a ladder is still pretty inconvenient. I thought about tilting the vertical culvert to accomodate stairs, but I'll still be hunched over and then the pulley system won't work.
I'm still weighing the pros (convenience) and cons (construction) of this issue... This is definitely my biggest issue though - I don't want it to be such a pain to access that I never use it!

I live alone - That plus a ladder into a hole in the ground REALLY bothers me. If you had a slip and fall from the ladder it could be AGES before you were found and I just bet cell phones won't work from inside of a culvert 6 feet down.

What exactly are you wanting to store in the cellar? Maybe we could come up with some cheaper options.

 

[jpjuniper]

Thanks for your concern, Farmfresh. I was actually joking with a friend of mine that it would be fun to install climbing holds along the culvert instead of a ladder... to make root cellaring even more fun!
I know an accident could happen to anyone, but I'm really not too concerned about that. I often go out in the backcountry alone for days on end and am used to being cautious and not relying on a cell phone. And anyway, I'm sure driving a car is way more dangerous than climbing a ladder, cell phone or not.
But... I do still understand the pain-in-the-behind concept and would be open to other suggestions to make it more "user-friendly".
I'll probably be storing up to 25(?) pounds of potatoes, some other seasonal veggies depending on the time of year (some long-term, some short-term), maybe some eggs occasionally. Probably some "canned" goods in glass jars - jams, veggies, pickles, etc.
I like the idea of it being under the porch so I don't have to traipse through the snow/rain to get to it.

 

[Farmfresh]

Does your house have a basement? If so it is possible to build a cold room there that would meet your needs.

 

[jpjuniper]

No basement. My house will be a small 16x16 cabin with a loft. It has a sonotube foundation and will have a 4' porch. (only the foundation is done at this time... next the rootcellar... next the walls and roof, etc.)
I have a builder for the house, but he really doesn't have much experience with root cellars, which is why I'm posting for feedback here.

In summary, my idea was... small house, small rootcellar.

 

[Bubblingbrooks]

If I am understanding this correctly, the root cellar is actually going to be your fridge, and not a place to store the years supply of garden produce. Correct?

I would suggest this then. I know the style cabin you are talking about.
Look into skirting the whole cabin and adding insulation, much as you would a foundation.
Then look into this... http://www.scribd.com/doc/8749171/alaska-root-cellar
It will mean a redesign, but a cabin with a crawlspace area will be warmer in the winter, and will offer you a better way to add the cellar.

 

[Bubblingbrooks]

Also, check out this... http://community.adn.com/node/133303

 

[Farmfresh]

We certainly think alike Bubblingbrooks! That is basically what I was going to suggest!

I saw an old house in our area many years ago that was built with a large trap door in the kitchen floor. The door led down a short stairway to an under house storage area. It was not a true basement it was only about 6 feet deep or so which made bringing the produce up very easy - they just reached it up to the kitchen floor! I am not sure how the permafrost would figure into all of this, but it seems like it would be easier to keep from freezing up since the heated house sits above it. ??

 

[Marianne]

BB, I like the hole in the floor idea for small spaces.

How about a dumb waiter system if you have it against a wall? Then the pulleys would be out of the way.

Someone had a youtube video for a natural flow frig, using cold air from below and wire racks to hold the food. If something like that would work, it wouldn't take up much space and be cheaper to build. You could probably size it down, too.

I'll have to see if I can find the video.

Oh! and welcome from Kansas!

Later: AND of course, I can't find it.

 

[jpjuniper]

Thanks BB for the ideas...
I think I'll talk to my builder about the idea of skirting the foundation - that definitely has some potential to be easy and satisfy what I'm looking for. That could also be done post-construction pretty easily, don't you think?
Marianne - that fridge sounds fascinating - I think I'll go on my own search for that video as well.
Thanks!