He just doesn't seem to get it, go away!

[lupinfarm]

Okay guys, let me clear some things up...

This has NOTHING to do with city folks move to the country, and actually I'm a little offended by that. He never ONCE asked to use the property, Jim TOLD HIM never to use our driveway and Jim actually cut him a path with his tractor through his own fields to get to his field, and then Phil complained that the terrain was too rough so Jim spent an ENTIRE WEEKEND working on removing boulders and making it like a driveway for him, and keep in mind Jim is a very busy dairy farmer. Jim told him he had to be out by June, which he's obviously not going to be... Jim has given him numerous extensions.

Its not rumour, he IS wanted. He creeps around our house, I caught him one day looking through the office window. He leaves his junk all over the laneway by the pony barn, he keeps chemicals (weed killer and that) or he did in our driveshed until we knocked it down. He comes up at insane hours, one day I got up at 6am to do the chickens and he was standing on my front lawn!

There is NO extra agreements between him and Jim, he's a scam artist, ...he hasn't lived here in almost 4 years and yet he's ALWAYS here. He KNOWS he's not supposed to be here. He actually stayed with the neighbours for a while, and took total advantage of them, drank all their wine (they're portuguese), ate all their food, never paid rent, etc. And I am GENUINELY afraid of this guy. We've put a gate up on the gap in the fence he uses to get to his topiaries (btw, he took out massive loans against neighbours to buy these trees, and we keep getting his mail ..overdue bank loans, etc.) I caught him once trying to un-do the lock on the pasture gate before we had Luna so he could drive through our pasture. He DROVE OVER JIMS CORN CROP last summer to get to his trees, when there were perfectly good tractor tracks for him to drive in.

Let me note, Pat... That we're accepted in our own community, we have friends here, we're good friends with a Portuguese family and have no bias or issues with ethnic backgrounds (we're English immigrants and know what thats like), Phil owned the property for 5 years, did nothing to the place, neglected it and let it become a run-down sad looking farm (the place, we've seen photos, was well taken care of before Phil bought it). Jim bought the property 3 years ago, severed the homestead and sold it to us last year.

We're not city people, never have been, never will be...

 

[lupinfarm]

If there an access road to the property he uses? Is there an agreement between Jim and the owner of the tree field that you are not aware of? If not, I would let Jim know that there is a man trespassing onto his land and explain what measures you are taking. When you put up the fence you need to put up a sign that states no trespassing. If nothing is done to tell this man that he is not welcome to use the path he could possibly file suit further down the road to actually take possession of part or all of that path. Don't think it could happen? It happened here in Colorado. These people had walked on their neighbors property so much that an actual path was worn into the ground. When the original owners were finally ready to build their home they found out that they couldn't (on that part of the land) due to an ancient law about land use and possession. Huge law suit ensued and the thieves (in my book) won.

He has rights to use Jims land, he's on there because they had an agreement..but what isn't right is that he uses our driveway, deters egg customers, etc.

 

[Wifezilla]

Can you say "restraining order"?

 

[FarmerChick]

To some extent this sounds a whole lot like the classic story of 'city folks move to country' with two conflicting traditions of how people are 'supposed' to behave.

You feel that your property is YOURS and nobody should be coming there without your approval, and that it is none of this person's business, and he is being creepy by stopping by a lot and talking to you, and that he has no right to do anythin' to anythin' other than his topiaries.

OTOH, if you look at it from the perspective of at least some of the local residents (in many areas, I am not guaranteeing this pertains to your location but I would bet dollars to Timbits that it does)... you are the new city people who moved onto what is still "really" such-and-such's property. You are not One Of Them, they are somewhat curious and puzzled and not always thrilled by the newfangled things you're doing, they are behaving the way they've behaved for generations and generations, they are being at least as friendly and trying-to-be-helpful as you deserve, and it is wholly unreasonable of you to think that society ought to turn itself on its head just to accommodate some new person's big city ideas and weird expectations.

It really works better to go with the flow. Rather than getting all in a swivet about what this person *might* do to your garden, or trying to figure out ways to ensure you never have to see or talk with him again, I honestly think you would be well off to just learn to tolerate him.

If you totally feel you HAVE to do something about the situation, for some reason, I'd suggest delicately soliciting advice from whatever local residents have been helpful to you thus far... although it would really be worth getting SEVERAL independant viewpoints on the situation (and not making the extent or nature of your personal feelings known, ahem) so as not to find yourself being used in complicated games.

Good luck,

Pat

Pat this makes no sense. Private property is just that...private.
Who cares what his circumstances are in his personality or anything......a private family owns this land outright.

It is their property and they have every right and privacy act to allow them to live there without others creeping around.

This just has me baffled in your response

and LUPIN....you do what you need to do to have your private land your own. I would never think twice on stopping this if it is annoying and not what you want on your land.

"creepy" people sometimes use their personality to their advantage, don't let it stop you from doing what you must do!!!

 

[Aidenbaby]

If that is the case then I would start contacting the police when he trespasses.

 

[reinbeau]

I have to agree a bit with Pat here, but only in her concepts, not her judgement of this specific situation. You do need to get the feel for how the locals deal with things. Yes, there is the private property thing, but what Pat said makes a lot of sense in fitting into the area where you buy land. Be that as it may, it doesn't apply to Lupinfarm's situation. I wouldn't care about the rumor or reality stuff, I'd just make darned sure he knew he wasn't welcome to use my driveway and to use the driveway that was provided to him. Perhaps I'd deliver that message with a restraining order, if it were necessary. Or maybe I'd have something nearby to reinforce my words, especially since LF has indicated she's genuinely afraid of this guy. I trust gut feelings. I'd definitely make him leave - and not come back. This is what the police department and restraining orders are meant for - and some personal reinforcements, if you know what I mean.

 

[FarmerChick]

while I understand the concept, it still is a personal choice on private property.

I let some walkers use my 30 acres, no problems. They always walk it, have for many years, I let them. LET THEM. I could care less about the "traditions in the area"----and at hunting season when Tony deer hunts, he must visit the homes and tell them to stay clear cause he will be shooting.

AND WHEN and if I move over to that 30 acres, yup, I will stop all walking on that land....they will be able to use my dirt road and such but to be in my "personal" backyard won't be happening. Yes, I will be informing all users that it is now off limits!

Yes, around here many let each other trespass without incident...but it is a personal choice. What may be common in the area, is not real life. Real life is what a person wants and lets happen to their property. It is the new owners choice, simple as that.

And "oldies" assuming they can trespass on a new owners property is just wrong. Simple.......unless they ask permission and get their answer.

I would never trespass without asking. Yup, we ride horse trails all over but know or have asked that it was acceptable. I would never just "think" someones property was my personal space. It is their land and they paid hard earned money for it so it should be respected.

Just my concept regarding "the concept"---LOL-LOL

not a debate or anything, just my thoughts on this kind of "trespassing is OK if it is tradition in the area"

 

[patandchickens]

not a debate or anything, just my thoughts on this kind of "trespassing is OK if it is tradition in the area"

When did I say it was "ok"? I have passed no judgement whatsoever on what is ok or not ok. I have avoided the subject completely, in fact, because I do not think there is any absolute -- only what one person thinks vs what another person thinks.

Point being, just because someone with different ideas moves into a community doesn't mean the community is likely to up and change all its ways of doing things or ideas about what's the right way for things to go. That is just a simple fact.

Private property being private may be how YOU grew up FC (and how I grew up too) but by no means is that how things are done everywhere. Someone could just as well say to you "this land was my daddy's friend's land, and his daddy's daddy's friend's land, and they've hunted on it and stored their junk on it since time immemorial, and just because you *live* on it doesn't mean we should change what we're doing, same as just because I live on my land doesn't mean that so-and-so over there can't <do certain things he's been doing since forever>."

Lupinfarm, I was not implying you are not "accepted" in the community, at least to some degree. (If you think you're considered the same way as people who've lived there for the last 100 years, you're mistaken, though).

But if anything, the more you are accepted, the more you tend to be expected to live with the community's ways of doing things, and treated that way, rather than being tiptoed around with kid gloves, so to speak.

I stand by my suggestion, which is to talk to some strategically-chosen people in the community about how you might best proceed. They know a whole lot more than you do about how to get things done in a maximally effective, minimally backfiring kind of way.

Pat

 

[Blackbird]

I say who cares what the community or the neighbors think. They don't have to live there, and they AREN'T you. 'You' meaning anyone in general. Your property, your business. You decide who can come and go on it. Simple as that.

 

[lupinfarm]

Pat, there is only one person on the road whose family has been here for a significant amount of time, and they want him gone as well. Our neighbour, Jim, has been helping out a lot, and everyone on the street was GLAD when we moved in, because they were so sick of looking at a run-down, wasted piece of land. Everyone wants him gone, and he just wont go. He's, sorry about the language, *screwed over* everyone on the street and they'er all mad. Anyway, I've put up and padlocked a gate to the pass through, he hasn't been here today but he does drive truck out of Toronto...and by the way, he lives in Toronto now. The gate at the end of the driveway goes up Wednesday, and I've put the stuff he dumped on our land over the fence in his topiary patch (more like 3 acres of topiaries). After I put the gate up, if he comes up, the police get called, but unfortunately the police can't charge him with trespassing because he never does it at night (in Canada, its only trespassing by night, trespassing by-laws are civil law and we'd have to press charges).