How to start a sour dough starter

[miss_thenorth]

So, can you explain your process of "months" to get your starter making decent loaves, and can explain how you used your starter that were producing so so loaves?

If I am interpreting correctly, you got your starter started, but it wasn't giving you the flavour you wanted? and so, you kept feeding your starter --on the counter or in the fridge?-- and then finally after months, you got decent tasting loaves?

 

[Shiloh Acres]

Question -- if it can take a while and there is so much "wasted" flour (and I'm admitting that I complained it's over $1 a pound for good flour out here) ... And also given the fact that you toss out half of it each day ... Is there a minimum amount that you can use so that it's smaller getting started and there's less "waste" until it stabilizes? Then again for all I know starting small could lengthen the time it takes to stabilize, and so defeat the point.

Any opinions on that? For now I'm just going with what was posted, but I wonder if it might not be cost effective after all to pay in the $15 range for the SF starter online.

The experience and learning is worth it though.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

So, can you explain your process of "months" to get your starter making decent loaves, and can explain how you used your starter that were producing so so loaves?

If I am interpreting correctly, you got your starter started, but it wasn't giving you the flavour you wanted? and so, you kept feeding your starter --on the counter or in the fridge?-- and then finally after months, you got decent tasting loaves?

I probably should have written it down at the time, but I will try to reconstruct what I did for you here . . . .

I think it took about a week for my starter to start doubling. At that point I started discarding half with each feeding, but I think I kept it at room temperature and just kept feeding it for at least another week like that before I even tried to use it. Then I think the first thing I tried to make was pancakes and they were an absolute flop, but I suspect that could be because I didn't give them enough time at all to get bubbly (being a sourdough newbie).

I believe at this point though (after 1 week of maintaining it on the counter and after 2 weeks since starting it) I started to keep it in the fridge most of the time and then bring it out to feed it every week. It may have helped if I had kept it on the counter longer. . . .

I started taking the weekly left-overs (after feeding it for two days and only storing a little bit in the fridge for the next week) and attempting to make bread with it. I started with some pretty simple recipes and found that I wasn't having a whole lot of luck . . . the bread tasted sour (more sour than my bread does now) but it wouldn't rise worth a darn. I think for a month or so, I would actually supplement some commercial yeast to get it to rise a little better, but I can't remember for sure that I did, or if I was just tempted to do it. Meanwhile, I was also learning the process of keeping the starter happy on the counter in cooler temperatures. Since a very sour flavor is indicative of the bacteria growing, and since bad rising is indicative of the yeast not growing well, I figured I needed to keep the starter as warm as I could to encourage more yeast growth. (The bacteria and yeast are supposed to be in balance). I often used the oven to keep it optimally warm for the yeast, but I found that had it's drawbacks too . . . often I would mess up and overwarm it and kill it. So for a while there, I had several starters going so I always had a back-up just in case.

After nearly killing it too many times, I decided to just keep it on the counter.

And then I just trudged along like that for a while. I think it was about 2-3 months from when I started it, that I started to get loaves that would rise well and the consistency of my bread baking results started to pick up. I found some other recipes for sourdough bread (basic white sourdough, dark rye, etc.) and was having better luck at this time, so I have since been making those same recipes regularly. I haven't gone back to some of the earlier recipes that I tried . . . maybe I was just too disappointed with them. My guess is the recipes were fine, it was just my starter.

I would guess that 3 months after starting my starter . . . around December . . . my starter was finally up to par. Since then it has actually improved! I am getting some crazy nice loaves of bread now. That isn't just me either. I gave BBH some of my starter near the beginning and she has noticed the same improvement.

To answer your last question . . . it was the ability to make the bread rise that was making those first loaves so-so. I think I actually preferred the flavor of those first loaves, because they were very sour. But I guess, ultimatel, the texture of the bread outweighs the flavor, IMO. It isn't that my sourdough isn't sour anymore . . . just not intensely so. But to me there is nothing quite like fluffy, melt-in-your-mouth bread.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

Question -- if it can take a while and there is so much "wasted" flour (and I'm admitting that I complained it's over $1 a pound for good flour out here) ... And also given the fact that you toss out half of it each day ... Is there a minimum amount that you can use so that it's smaller getting started and there's less "waste" until it stabilizes? Then again for all I know starting small could lengthen the time it takes to stabilize, and so defeat the point.

Any opinions on that? For now I'm just going with what was posted, but I wonder if it might not be cost effective after all to pay in the $15 range for the SF starter online.

The experience and learning is worth it though.

Use whatever volume is manageable to you. I chose to feed mine 1/3 + 1/6 cup of flour at each feeding and it worked out that by doing that and feeding it twice (with no discarding) before re-storing it in the fridge I could get about 1 1/2 cups of starter to bake with each week, which sometimes is more than I need, but usually the right amount and occasionally not enough (so I will re-feed before baking). You can adjust your feedings to get exactly how much you want with little or no waste, if you are careful about it.

I have heard that even a "genuine San Francisco" starter won't necessarily stay the same in your home anyway . . . the bugs will change based upon the conditions in your home. Up to you, but IMO it is worth doing it yourself.

ETA: I still keep two separate starters going simultaneously, just in case something happens to one of them. So I guess technically I am feeding twice with 1 cup of flour per feeding before using.

 

[ORChick]

I sent off a new packet of dehydrated sourdough to Dace yestrday; as she has said, we think the feds got the first one . Though nobody has come knocking on my door, inquiring about the "white powder" that I had tried to send through the US Postal system, so maybe not. Could be that the envelope was just too bulky to make it through the machines. Anyway, this second lot was better packaged, and I didn't send quite so much.
As this was my first go at dehydrating sourdough, I thought it wise to re-hydrate some to see if the bacteria had survived the process. I mixed a spoonful into a flour/water mix (not too much of either, about 1/3 cup, as it was a small spoonful), and left it on the counter overnight. Next day there were a few incipient bubbles. After 24 hours the whole thing was bubbling and rising, but didn't smell like sourdough. This morning (about 36 hours) it smells and looks like it should . So the experiment was a success, and - if the stuff arrives safely at Dace's - she should be able to get it re-activated easily.
Now, if anyone else would like some of my starter, I would be happy to send some. A PM, and a SASE will be all that I need.

 

[ORChick]

The starter that I have was given me about 5 years ago by a friend; I don't know where or how he got it. But he did say that it is an old one, supposedly first started in Alaska at the end of the 1800's. I have started my own starter a few times over the years, and had reasonable luck with that. But, quite honestly, never felt comfortable (and never tried) to make a purely sourdough risen bread - I always used it more as a flavor enhancer rather than a pure leaven*. It was the same with this Alaskan one for quite awhile - I really didn't want to end up with a sourdough door stop. But last year I made the plunge, and it worked very well.
I keep the starter in the 'fridge for the most part; we are a small family (just us 2), so I don't bake every week. I try to remember to feed it at least once a week, though sometimes I let it slide. When I plan to use it I bring it out a couple of days before, and feed it several times before use, particularly if it hasn't been used in awhile. I used to feed it, let it rise up, stir it down, and then refrigerate. But I have since read that it is better to feed it, and immediately refrigerate it (if not using); The bacterial growth will be on its way up slowly while refrigerated, rather than at its peak and then going hungry for lack of food because of the initial fast growth before refrigeration.

ETA: *Except for simple things like English muffins or pancakes

 

[Shiloh Acres]

DrakeMaiden, thanks for the reply. I'm not to the point if being able to use anything yet, but good to know. If I can get anything useable going, I won't spring for the "real SF" starter, if it's likely to change on me anyway. The experience is valuable instead.

and ORChick, I sent you a PM. I hope I can get on your list. What a cool idea, to dehydrate starter!

 

[DrakeMaiden]

Just to clarify, Shiloh Acres . . . you can use any volume of flour/water to get your starter started too. No magic formula. Since you will have to discard some, might as well work with as small of a volume as you feel comfortable.

 

[Dace]

Gosh you ladies are just a wealth of great info!

I think my starter started with 1/4 c of rye flour (also $1 per pound here BTW)
I fed a ration of 9Tbs rye and 6 Tbs bottled water. That is the ratio I got off of the link on the main page.

Thanks ORchick for resending, I will let you know when it arrives!

I guess the ratios throw me and that is probably how I killed my starter, which was doing well at one point

So you don't all pour out half and re-feed the same volume back in? For me I have a family of 6 and I am hoping that my girls will be able to tolerate SD....so I would probably bake 2 loaves twice a week. Any advice about bumping up the volume would be great. I tried BBH's suggestion about pulling some out of the fridge and feeding it a good amount....and I killed it.
Maybe I need a book

Lots to learn here......

 

[miss_thenorth]

the batch I am doing now, I am using 1/4 rye flour and 1/2 cup WW flour, mixed with 1/2 cup water. This batter is thicker than the other attempts I have made, but even after two days, it is doubling and bubbling nicely.

So far, my method has been, Sept 1--original 1/4 rye flour and 1/2 cup WW flour, mixed with 1/2 cup water. Let set for 12 hours. Checked and no activity, so I stirred and left for another 12 hours. Day 2-Doubled and bubbled--removed 1/2 , and added 1/4 rye flour and 1/2 cup WW flour, mixed with 1/2 cup water
12 hours later-repeat
Day 3--repeat. It is getting a real sour smell, but not what I am looking for.