Interesting dairy farm-- definately not a homestead

[FarmerChick]

That 'feeding millions' is the same malarkey Monsanto uses to justify their world take over of all things related to our food supply. I don't buy it. Teach them to take care of their own food supply, be it home by home or village by village. Cheap food costs us far too much in the long run. Look at the diets today with the processed cheap food. All to sell more corn, every single molecule of it. Our whole food supply model is wrong, it's not geared towards our good health, it's geared towards the bottom line of a few corporations.

Yes, I live what I preach. Ok, I'm done ranting.

LOL---I hear you Ann and most I totally agree with

but honestly again, I do not know how you can say let people locally fend for themselves and think that a big city like NY could ever feed itself within a certain range of miles. There are too many people concentrated in one area to ever be dependent on small local farms. It is truly just not feasible.

While I know what you mean---cheap food is actually more expensive to health and environment and all that--------you ain't changing millions who don't care and need to eat.


Yes one small community, workshops to learn how to be greener, etc. etc. are happening and it is working on very small scales.....but to think it can happen any time soon with the masses just isn't doable.

 

[Frosting]

What is the worst in general....are the expensives and regulations that come with a small dairy.

Those same expenses and regulations are there for the large farms as well. Plus, they have to hire employees=more expenese and more headaches as it's hard to find good trustworthy employees. I know of farmers here that wish they hadn't grown. They are having a harder time since growing than they did as the small guy.

While you are correct....a small farm can not compete with a larger farm when it comes to "doing for themselves"

Barb grows her own fields for silage. about 300 acres in production.

She got hit with drought and not enough hay to make it..had to purchase hay from NY at the tune of $5,400 per truckload. She bought 2.

A large farm can easily cut those costs like crazy buying 15 tractor trailer loads of hay...and the cost savings is huge and I mean huge compared to a smaller farmer having to "buy" when required.

Barb has tried to hire ONE person to help her and she offeres great pay and great incentives like meat when they butcher etc.....no one, and I mean no one will do it. Her last guy, a nice man passed away about 4 years ago (he worked there about 7 years) and she can not get 1 person to work for her.


Bigger farms can offer insurance, job stability etc. And no it isn't a headache cause having employees is what a business does

Yes, they can buy feed cheaper but, still they need help. As you have pointed out, finding good, reliable, trustworthy, affordable help is very hard to come by.

We grow our own hay and corn too. Drought this year has forced us to buy hay. We have bought it locally at a cheaper price than having it trucked in. The smaller quantity we need is easier to find here than the large quantity that some of the larger farms around need. We saved on the fact that we bought locally and not just on trucking either.

Not all large farms offer insurance and some who used to are not anymore. My neighbor is an example. He is large with employees, used to have health insurance and even workmans comp for them. He can no longer afford either so they have to get their own or through a spouses employer.

 

[FarmerChick]

A business (a true business!!!) must support everything. and that means insurance etc. which my friends farm does.

The farm supports itself. It is a true business and I resent you implying otherwise. We could get by on the farm alone, if we were to choose to give up other things. But, feel that somethings are more important than others. If we can't have a little to enjoy life with then why bother with life.

As for the city people being able to afford to buy their food. If they gave up some of their things, they could afford higher prices too. After all, we made it as a farm with gas prices high last year. Even were able to pay off some big bills. We bought 40 acres of land and paid it off in 4 years. This is an example of something we could have given up. By that I mean we could have taken longer to pay it off. Our whole farm is paid for. Every piece of equipment, every cow, both vechiles, etc. There isn't a loan out on anything because we choose to make higher payments and have DH work out for the insurance.

It is not a real business in the true term. A real business does it all----in actual legal business terms.

Do you pay taxes on your income with this dairy? And if yes, then why can't it support your insurance requirements? A real business is not real if it can't support the whole situation.

You say the farm supports itself but it can not support your family. While you love that life, you are willing to work outside the home to enjoy that life. that is great and it works for you but business is business.

And you aren't willing to give up other things? Like what???? more stuff that is a drain on this world to be created, more environmental pollution to support "your things you won't give up"----I mean, I don't know what things are more important than having that farm lifestyle but you must work outside the home to own? (not judging here, just wondering??)

You said have city people give up things to afford higher food prices?
Hmm...and yet you work outside the home from the farm to afford other things also you want.

ok for you but not others???

 

[Frosting]

FarmerChick, I have a couple questions to ask you. You have claimed to be a farmer, what kind? And why are you not talking about your own farm?

You keep referring to your friends farm. Do you make the management decisions or just talk with her?

 

[FarmerChick]

Those same expenses and regulations are there for the large farms as well. Plus, they have to hire employees=more expenese and more headaches as it's hard to find good trustworthy employees. I know of farmers here that wish they hadn't grown. They are having a harder time since growing than they did as the small guy.

While you are correct....a small farm can not compete with a larger farm when it comes to "doing for themselves"

Barb grows her own fields for silage. about 300 acres in production.

She got hit with drought and not enough hay to make it..had to purchase hay from NY at the tune of $5,400 per truckload. She bought 2.

A large farm can easily cut those costs like crazy buying 15 tractor trailer loads of hay...and the cost savings is huge and I mean huge compared to a smaller farmer having to "buy" when required.

Barb has tried to hire ONE person to help her and she offeres great pay and great incentives like meat when they butcher etc.....no one, and I mean no one will do it. Her last guy, a nice man passed away about 4 years ago (he worked there about 7 years) and she can not get 1 person to work for her.


Bigger farms can offer insurance, job stability etc. And no it isn't a headache cause having employees is what a business does

Yes, they can buy feed cheaper but, still they need help. As you have pointed out, finding good, reliable, trustworthy, affordable help is very hard to come by.

We grow our own hay and corn too. Drought this year has forced us to buy hay. We have bought it locally at a cheaper price than having it trucked in. The smaller quantity we need is easier to find here than the large quantity that some of the larger farms around need. We saved on the fact that we bought locally and not just on trucking either.

Not all large farms offer insurance and some who used to are not anymore. My neighbor is an example. He is large with employees, used to have health insurance and even workmans comp for them. He can no longer afford either so they have to get their own or through a spouses employer.

I agree with the insurance for farms...but honestly, that is in tons of business jobs now. SO MANY employers no matter the biz do not offer insurance, or it is priced crazy.....so this is not a problem just for farms at all!!!!!

yea if you can get cheaper that is great, but when a drought hits a big area and you must find hay......and NY has it, well you truck it..LOL---you were very fortunate

 

[Frosting]

A business (a true business!!!) must support everything. and that means insurance etc. which my friends farm does.

The farm supports itself. It is a true business and I resent you implying otherwise. We could get by on the farm alone, if we were to choose to give up other things. But, feel that somethings are more important than others. If we can't have a little to enjoy life with then why bother with life.

As for the city people being able to afford to buy their food. If they gave up some of their things, they could afford higher prices too. After all, we made it as a farm with gas prices high last year. Even were able to pay off some big bills. We bought 40 acres of land and paid it off in 4 years. This is an example of something we could have given up. By that I mean we could have taken longer to pay it off. Our whole farm is paid for. Every piece of equipment, every cow, both vechiles, etc. There isn't a loan out on anything because we choose to make higher payments and have DH work out for the insurance.

It is not a real business in the true term. A real business does it all----in actual legal business terms.

Do you pay taxes on your income with this dairy? And if yes, then why can't it support your insurance requirements? A real business is not real if it can't support the whole situation.

You say the farm supports itself but it can not support your family. While you love that life, you are willing to work outside the home to enjoy that life. that is great and it works for you but business is business.

And you aren't willing to give up other things? Like what???? more stuff that is a drain on this world to be created, more environmental pollution to support "your things you won't give up"----I mean, I don't know what things are more important than having that farm lifestyle but you must work outside the home to own? (not judging here, just wondering??)

You said have city people give up things to afford higher food prices?
Hmm...and yet you work outside the home from the farm to afford other things also you want.

ok for you but not others???

We pay income taxes. It is a real business and can support our family. Many small business people also have a spouse that works out. The business supports itself and that is what a real business should do. I gave an example of what we choose to do. How many can pay off a loan on 40 acres in 4 years? Not many. We had the whole farm paid for in 10 years. How many can/have done this? It's more important for us to pay the loans off faster so that if we have to live off the farm's income alone we can. Yes, we would have to tighten our belts somemore but, you know what, we know how because we have been there.

 

[FarmerChick]

FarmerChick, I have a couple questions to ask you. You have claimed to be a farmer, what kind? And why are you not talking about your own farm?

You keep referring to your friends farm. Do you make the management decisions or just talk with her?

oh I talk about her farm cause we started talking about dairy farms...LOL--she is my best friend and I know her biz inside and out.

I don't dairy at all.

I would never want those federal requirements in my life being a dairy farmer.




My farm is 120 acres.
We have 250 chickens
125 hogs
20 cattle
30 goats down from over 120 when breeding
80 acres in hay production
balance in pasture and field crop production

I used to be a real farm business but like you said, the farm "could support itself" but I could not make higher income to LIVE! So Tony works a real job....we farm....and I make tons of money that is tax free now.

So I am now a hobby farm that makes great money!!! As much as I wanted it to be a real business, I could not do it. And honestly, I didn't want to take it to a higher level....being older (near 50) I want to gear down, not ramp up...LOL

 

[FarmerChick]

The farm supports itself. It is a true business and I resent you implying otherwise. We could get by on the farm alone, if we were to choose to give up other things. But, feel that somethings are more important than others. If we can't have a little to enjoy life with then why bother with life.

As for the city people being able to afford to buy their food. If they gave up some of their things, they could afford higher prices too. After all, we made it as a farm with gas prices high last year. Even were able to pay off some big bills. We bought 40 acres of land and paid it off in 4 years. This is an example of something we could have given up. By that I mean we could have taken longer to pay it off. Our whole farm is paid for. Every piece of equipment, every cow, both vechiles, etc. There isn't a loan out on anything because we choose to make higher payments and have DH work out for the insurance.

It is not a real business in the true term. A real business does it all----in actual legal business terms.

Do you pay taxes on your income with this dairy? And if yes, then why can't it support your insurance requirements? A real business is not real if it can't support the whole situation.

You say the farm supports itself but it can not support your family. While you love that life, you are willing to work outside the home to enjoy that life. that is great and it works for you but business is business.

And you aren't willing to give up other things? Like what???? more stuff that is a drain on this world to be created, more environmental pollution to support "your things you won't give up"----I mean, I don't know what things are more important than having that farm lifestyle but you must work outside the home to own? (not judging here, just wondering??)

You said have city people give up things to afford higher food prices?
Hmm...and yet you work outside the home from the farm to afford other things also you want.

ok for you but not others???

We pay income taxes. It is a real business and can support our family. Many small business people also have a spouse that works out. The business supports itself and that is what a real business should do. I gave an example of what we choose to do. How many can pay off a loan on 40 acres in 4 years? Not many. We had the whole farm paid for in 10 years. How many can/have done this? It's more important for us to pay the loans off faster so that if we have to live off the farm's income alone we can. Yes, we would have to tighten our belts somemore but, you know what, we know how because we have been there.

Then you are doing very well....I am very glad your business is real and doing fine.

And yes, each family has their own "wants and desires" in life and will make them happen at whatever cost.

 

[Frosting]

I agree with the insurance for farms...but honestly, that is in tons of business jobs now. SO MANY employers no matter the biz do not offer insurance, or it is priced crazy.....so this is not a problem just for farms at all!!!!!

yea if you can get cheaper that is great, but when a drought hits a big area and you must find hay......and NY has it, well you truck it..LOL---you were very fortunate

Ah but, you are the one that pointed out large farms provide insurance to their workers, I just pointed out that it's not always so anymore.

Not lucky, it's being smaller that afforded us to be able to do it. If we were big, we couldn't have done it and would have had to truck in from outside the state. Drought has hit a big area here, including right where we live. Heck in 1988 we had to buy most of our feed. We made it through. It's not that we haven't been there, done that, we have. I know what I'm talking about. You keep talking about your friends operation. We live the operation here. I don't have to go to someone else's operation for examples. We make the decisions.

 

[Frosting]

Then you are doing very well....I am very glad your business is real and doing fine.

It is what I've been trying to tell you.

As far as I can see, you have no right to point a finger at a real business making it when you avoid taxes on your farm so you can live better. Your not making it that way because you are not paying all of your expenses.