Ionized Water???

[~gd]

Hi,

It is not the first tme that Wiki has gotten it wrong. I actually have a great deal of empirical evidence in my book, The Science of Ionized Water, as well as videos by renown doctors. The reason I put the book together was so people could Know The Truth.

Now I have to admit that some water ionizers do not deliver results because they are shabbily made, do not have the right amount of power nor the medical grade materials to create the negative ORP necessary to change health.

I can understand the confusion people have because there is tons of misinformation on the Internet. I myself always thought water ionizers were some sort of fringe crazy idea until my friend from high school, Tony, called me and told me about this machine he bought that made Alkaline Water. I knew I needed to get a machine because I knew I needed to get my body alkaline to battle the breast cancer. I had defeated it 13 years earlier holistically. It is hard to change your diet so radically but water is another story.
The machine came recommended by a friend who is anything but "fringe" so I trusted him.

I drank a gallon and a half for 6 weeks and all kinds of medical conditions just went away. There are thousands of stories like mine.

Basically, water ionization was created in Japan. In the 50's Japanese Scientists went to the healing waters of the world in the Himalayan s, India, Lourdes of France, to study why these waters are different. They did this in response to the acid rain they were experiencing from China. What they discovered was these waters contain Negative Hydrogen ions. The scientist did not create ionized water, they just set out to build a machine that can duplicate nature.

In Japan, 1 out of 5 households have an ionized water machine. They are the longest lived nation on earth. The USA is ranked number 39. In Japan doctors prescribe ionized water for their patients. Japan did a huge promotion through a series on TV educating people about ionized water and encouraging them to get a machine for their home.

Water ionizers are used in hospitals there, and a panel of 6500 doctors recommends Kangen Water for health.

Just because Western medicine does not accept anything that does not include a drug which they can patent and make money on, and yes, just because Wiki has had someone post this unfounded report, does not make it so.

Do you know how a Wiki works? yep you can post wrong info there and anyone that reads it can change it. This can go on until a conclusion is reached. Do you know what empirical evidence is? It does not include all the stories about how wonderful something is. If you want to beleive it cured your cancer go ahead the power of faith might also have cured you the point is that a single {or even many) stories are not proof. Down to brass tacks the wonderful healing water contained Negative Hydrogen ions. so does acid rain in fact Negative Hydrogen ions. makes your claims about Alkaline Water. sort of Moot. If you really have a cure I will be really glad to read about it in a Journal. Do you know that a great number of drugs are made in Japan for sale in western markets. And those winderful machines are not given away are they even in Japan? To get a patent you must disclose your entire process and evenually the Patent expires. Makes me wonder why you are so hostile ti this old chemist I have no book to sell and I have stated that I don't care what you choose to drink. ~gd

 

[dianahester]

Of course I know how wiki works. But Wiki has not gotten it right on this one. And of course I know what empirical evidence it. I think the stories are more my style because I'm a people person but the research has been done. I know you are trying to demean me and make me look like an idiot but it will not work because I have done the research on both areas, the science and the people. I told you. I wrote a book. Science wants to diminish the real results people have but when it comes down to it, results are what matter. I do not take drugs, btw. I take herbs, eat food, drink ionized water, take responsibility for my own health. I do the things that the medical community mocks and belittles. But I do not run to the doctor for drugs. If everyone was like me, they would go broke.

They do double blind studies for drug release, btw it has been proven that 30% of the studies have been manipulated. It doesn't matter if it works on people as long as the study is there. The drug can kill people but that is just one of those things. I mean really. You buy into all that?

Medicine has its place, but it is not on the throne it has been placed.

Science has its place but it is not on the pedestal which it has been placed.

Abdicating to science and medicine at the cost of your humanity and good common sense makes you as foolish in my eyes as I am in yours. Two camps. I'll stick with mine. Just seems weird that this forum wouldn't go more toward natural, self sufficient, and sustainable. That would require thinking for yourself.

 

[dianahester]

Sorry. As far as empirical evidence goes, there is scads. I wrote a book. Doctors telling of what they have observed, the improvements. The problem with medicine, you cannot broadcast alternative treatments because people have lost their license and even been jailed. For instance, a pastor had been sent home to die as the doctors had done all the damage they could do. My friend loaned him an ionizer and he drank the water for 2 months. When he went back to the doctor, they could find no cancer. He told he doctor he had been drinking ionized water but the doctor dismissed it as unimportant. Several times doctors have just called it remission, a fluke thing but they never give credit to the ionized water. So how are you going to get "empirical" evidence like that?.

 

[~gd]

Of course I know how wiki works. But Wiki has not gotten it right on this one. And of course I know what empirical evidence it. I think the stories are more my style because I'm a people person but the research has been done. I know you are trying to demean me and make me look like an idiot but it will not work because I have done the research on both areas, the science and the people. I told you. I wrote a book. Science wants to diminish the real results people have but when it comes down to it, results are what matter. I do not take drugs, btw. I take herbs, eat food, drink ionized water, take responsibility for my own health. I do the things that the medical community mocks and belittles. But I do not run to the doctor for drugs. If everyone was like me, they would go broke.

They do double blind studies for drug release, btw it has been proven that 30% of the studies have been manipulated. It doesn't matter if it works on people as long as the study is there. The drug can kill people but that is just one of those things. I mean really. You buy into all that? SOME but not all I spent the last 30 years of my working life working on vaccines for kids I know that even honest studies can reach a bad conclusion. MY first was for HIB disease there was no vaccine at the time so we just shot up a few Hundreds and used others in the control group. At that time they had a drug that would control the bacteria BUT the fever peaked so fast and high that btain damage and death usually resulted before the drug had a effect. Both the test group and the control group showed great improvement {the doctors were made more aware of the disease and treatment} i knew the vaccine was safe because I was the 3rd human to receive it There were no deaths in the test group and only 4 in the control. What was amazing was the amount of brain damaged kids in the control group, even with the best medical care their brains were being fried before the drug could work. we were rated highly safe and effective except for babies under 6. Young babies would get immunity from mother's milk but brest feeding was out of favor at that time. The young immune system just didn't see the bacteria as a threat. Of course a big drug company beat us to the 2nd vaccine and they chose to test on Native americans in the far north[very big problem there] due to lack of funds we did our study in N california. YEP big money won the race and they got approved first. About 6 months later we received our approval and doctors were passing the word around that the other vaccine was not working like it should. Much later it was shown that the two populations were genetic different. We tested on the general population and we worked there. The other tested on Native americans and it worked there . The problem was that theirs didn't work well on the general population. All of these were honest studies but one was flawed.

Medicine has its place, but it is not on the throne it has been placed.

Science has its place but it is not on the pedestal which it has been placed.

Abdicating to science and medicine at the cost of your humanity and good common sense makes you as foolish in my eyes as I am in yours. Two camps. I'll stick with mine. Just seems weird that this forum wouldn't go more toward natural,Oh it does! I have been thrown off 2 times but when I was much younger I was brought up on a self sufficent farm and I have actually done a lot of things that others have only read about. I am the outcast here, not the rule. self sufficient, and sustainable. That would require thinking for yourself.

 

[k15n1]

I know what you mean. I used to haul cases of bottled water a month into the house to avoid drinking tap water. Now all my son's friends come over to fill their water bottles up because the water taste so good. And the deal is, you can not only taste the difference but feel the difference. The machine has a filter in it too. So the water flows through the filter into a chamber that has 7 large medical grade titanium/platinum plates. The water splits at that juncture creating a positive and negative stream.

The machine allows you to select what water you want, 9.5 pH, 8.5, pH, 8.0 ph, clean water (basically just the filter) beauty water which is a pH of around 5.5 to 6.0 which is the same pH for skin toners and it acts as a skin toner. 2.5 is the strong acidic water which is a disinfectant for wounds, counter tops, food to make sure there is not bacteria. etc. Then there is 11.5 which is an emulsifier. You can wash your fruits and vegetables in the 11.5 and it pulls off all the pesticides and oxidation off the veggies and fruits, also clean stains in laundry, wash dishes in your dishwasher... just to name a few.

The water has a very high oxidation reduction potential. Green tea is around -100 and the water can go up to -900 ORP. This means the water is the strongest antioxidant you can take and is readily available to neutralize free radicals.

I am a fan because there is not a product on the market that can compare with what it has to offer not only in quality but also in versatility. For health and greening potential there is nothing that can compare.

Yes, I know what you mean about feel. There are huge differences even between commercial bottled waters and various wells.

BTW, an emulsifier is usually an aliphatic molecule, not a pH. pH is just the number of H+ ions in solution. It's measured in log units because people like positive numbers between 0 and 1000. You know, like "He's batting 300" instead of saying that the batter's probability of hitting the ball is 0.300.

There are some words to watch out for; in particular, enzyme, antioxidant, emulsifier, oxidize. These words get bandied about by marketing departments and health-food nuts all the time. They're scientific-sounding or enough so to impress normal people who haven't devoted their career to biochemistry or medicine. The only legitimate use of enzyme I've ever seen in a consumer product is for a detergent (Shout? ...can't remember).

 

[k15n1]

Sorry. As far as empirical evidence goes, there is scads. I wrote a book. Doctors telling of what they have observed, the improvements. The problem with medicine, you cannot broadcast alternative treatments because people have lost their license and even been jailed. For instance, a pastor had been sent home to die as the doctors had done all the damage they could do. My friend loaned him an ionizer and he drank the water for 2 months. When he went back to the doctor, they could find no cancer. He told he doctor he had been drinking ionized water but the doctor dismissed it as unimportant. Several times doctors have just called it remission, a fluke thing but they never give credit to the ionized water. So how are you going to get "empirical" evidence like that?.

You have an example that is missing pretty much every detail that would render your story credible. And even if it's true, it's a single anecdote. Data is multiple measurements, recorded on a permanent medium. That's the minimum. And for something like this, you'd have to prove to everyone that you're not just cherry-picking examples to make your point. One way to avoid that is to take a bunch of terminally ill patients, randomly divide the group into 2, and treat only 1 group. If it double blind, even I would sit up and take notice of the results.

If you're willing to write a book, maybe you should take it to the next level. Direct a scientific study and publish it in a peer-reviewed journal. You won't make money on it which makes it more credible than the book you mentioned. Anyone can publish a book these days. Publishing a paper, on the other hand, is a much higher bar. If you can show that the water works even in some cases, it will be of great interest to the medical community. Physicians are very results oriented and would probably try the water treatment if it worked.

OK, I'm mostly signing off. This has been an interesting discussion but none of us want a flame war. I feel I've had my say and I'll follow along to see what the follow up is but I don't want to turn this into a pointless argument. So far, it's been an interesting discussion and I'm happy to leave it at that. Cheers.

 

[baymule]

The problem with medicine, you cannot broadcast alternative treatments because people have lost their license and even been jailed.

A friend of mine was sent home to die of lung cancer. It turned out that her uncle had a clinic for alternative medicine. he got run out of the country by the feds who wanted to arrest him, years ago. He set up his clinic in Mexico and used chelation therapy to cure cancer. Her uncle was in his 80's and came back home. He mixed up a solution using hydrogen peroxide and other ingredients. She also used injectable vitamin C. it was done intravenously. She went from pale, sick, on oxygen--to healthy, no oxygen and no cancer. The tumor died and shrank. Finally it was just scar tissue on her lung. That has been over 3 years ago and she is healthier than before she got cancer.

How many people have died that could have been cured because you can't patent natural ingredients? What a shame.

I am interested in this ionized water. Where do you find these machines and how much do they cost?

 

[Denim Deb]

I'm interested as well. I'd also like to read more about them, both empirical evidence as well as anecdotal. While there are some things I'll take at face value, anything that is important to me, I want to read as much as I can, weigh the evidence, then make a decision for myself. When you come right down to it, I'm the one that matters-not the ones that are either for or against this.