Joel Salatin...a messy discussion

[sylvie]

perhaps you guys are all a lot more understanding and forgiving than me, but i'm still not completely satisfied.

if the issue is one of accommodations, how does he take women on for the summer sessions? accommodations don't come and go with the seasons, at least not around here.

i never doubted that the man loved his family. and i don't think he thinks all women are useless. AND he can, of course, do whatever the heck he likes with his own farm. but i still can't help but feel like this kind of policy does an injustice to women farmers. if he truly believes that a woman can manage hundreds of acres alone (which he must if he let her run a part of his land) why doesn't he see the value in having year-long female apprentices? and, conversely, how does he not see the harm in NOT having year-long female apprentices?

Fact is, he doesn't take woman apprentices because he doesn't have the accommodations for it. I'm sure special arrangements are made for the summer interns that would be difficult to sustain during the off season. He only needs two apprentices during that off-season because it is the OFF-SEASON. There is just not as much to do during that period. In case you hadn't caught the point of the Slow Food movement, food does have its seasons, and that includes the animals on a farm like Polyface.

During the regular season, things are much different on Polyface. There is a lot of work that needs to be done, sun up to sun down, and it takes more than two interns and the family to accomplish it. So, he makes other arrangements for the extra interns, which in turn pays for itself by having the extra hands to assist with the extra work.

It isn't rocket science.

I don't know what your deal is. I don't think there is anything Grady or Salatin could say that would satisfy you. You have had a chip on your shoulder about Salatin ever since you found out he wasn't a liberal, even before you heard a word out of his mouth or read a single thing he wrote.

I refer back to our conversation on BYC, and repeat, Joel Salatin and conservative (religiously and politically) and libertarian folks like him are one of the best things to happen to the sustainable agriculture movement. We can't be written off as just a bunch of hippy back-to-landers. It isn't about politics. It is about the right thing.

Y'all asked a question, and Grady (who actually KNOWS the man) answered it. That should be the end of the discussion.

I just began reading this thread and this particular post is just plain political. So are we allowed a political response to this or not?
I thought we weren't going in this direction anymore with the moratorium.

 

[Dace]

I wouldn't go there Sylvie

 

[sylvie]

Obviously, I am not going there by not responding to it directly.
The only reason I didn't hit the report button is because I just read it, so too late.

 

[Buster]

perhaps you guys are all a lot more understanding and forgiving than me, but i'm still not completely satisfied.

if the issue is one of accommodations, how does he take women on for the summer sessions? accommodations don't come and go with the seasons, at least not around here.

i never doubted that the man loved his family. and i don't think he thinks all women are useless. AND he can, of course, do whatever the heck he likes with his own farm. but i still can't help but feel like this kind of policy does an injustice to women farmers. if he truly believes that a woman can manage hundreds of acres alone (which he must if he let her run a part of his land) why doesn't he see the value in having year-long female apprentices? and, conversely, how does he not see the harm in NOT having year-long female apprentices?

Fact is, he doesn't take woman apprentices because he doesn't have the accommodations for it. I'm sure special arrangements are made for the summer interns that would be difficult to sustain during the off season. He only needs two apprentices during that off-season because it is the OFF-SEASON. There is just not as much to do during that period. In case you hadn't caught the point of the Slow Food movement, food does have its seasons, and that includes the animals on a farm like Polyface.

During the regular season, things are much different on Polyface. There is a lot of work that needs to be done, sun up to sun down, and it takes more than two interns and the family to accomplish it. So, he makes other arrangements for the extra interns, which in turn pays for itself by having the extra hands to assist with the extra work.

It isn't rocket science.

I don't know what your deal is. I don't think there is anything Grady or Salatin could say that would satisfy you. You have had a chip on your shoulder about Salatin ever since you found out he wasn't a liberal, even before you heard a word out of his mouth or read a single thing he wrote.

I refer back to our conversation on BYC, and repeat, Joel Salatin and conservative (religiously and politically) and libertarian folks like him are one of the best things to happen to the sustainable agriculture movement. We can't be written off as just a bunch of hippy back-to-landers. It isn't about politics. It is about the right thing.

Y'all asked a question, and Grady (who actually KNOWS the man) answered it. That should be the end of the discussion.

I just began reading this thread and this particular post is just plain political.

Well, no, it isn't. I can say it because I'm a liberal. A socialist, in fact. I'm just saying it is wrong to judge a man like Salatin because of his personal politics or his religion, when those things have nothing to do with his contributions as a sustainable farmer outside the fact his motivation might be different from mine.

And that is what I believe some people were doing.

 

[Dace]

Fact is, he doesn't take woman apprentices because he doesn't have the accommodations for it. I'm sure special arrangements are made for the summer interns that would be difficult to sustain during the off season. He only needs two apprentices during that off-season because it is the OFF-SEASON. There is just not as much to do during that period. In case you hadn't caught the point of the Slow Food movement, food does have its seasons, and that includes the animals on a farm like Polyface.

During the regular season, things are much different on Polyface. There is a lot of work that needs to be done, sun up to sun down, and it takes more than two interns and the family to accomplish it. So, he makes other arrangements for the extra interns, which in turn pays for itself by having the extra hands to assist with the extra work.

It isn't rocket science.

I don't know what your deal is. I don't think there is anything Grady or Salatin could say that would satisfy you. You have had a chip on your shoulder about Salatin ever since you found out he wasn't a liberal, even before you heard a word out of his mouth or read a single thing he wrote.

I refer back to our conversation on BYC, and repeat, Joel Salatin and conservative (religiously and politically) and libertarian folks like him are one of the best things to happen to the sustainable agriculture movement. We can't be written off as just a bunch of hippy back-to-landers. It isn't about politics. It is about the right thing.

Y'all asked a question, and Grady (who actually KNOWS the man) answered it. That should be the end of the discussion.

I just began reading this thread and this particular post is just plain political.

Well, no, it isn't. I can say it because I'm a liberal. A socialist, in fact. I'm just saying it is wrong to judge a man like Salatin because of his personal politics or his religion, when those things have nothing to do with his contributions as a sustainable farmer outside the fact his motivation might be different from mine.

And that is what I believe some people were doing.

Buster, because any political reference seems to ruffle feathers no matter what the topic, it is best to just leave that out of the equation. If you believe that Joel is being judged based on his political views, better to just let it be. You can't win every one over

 

[Ldychef2k]

And besides, political posts are not allowed here.

 

[kcsunshine]

Ditto what Dace said. It'll just keep going and going and going. Kinda like the pink bunny.

 

[Buster]

I still don't believe it is a political post. If someone disagrees, I'm fine if they want to report it, and won't be offended if the mods decide it needs to be expurgated.

I have a very thick skin.

 

[Dace]

And besides, political posts are not allowed here.

Thanks Ldy, guess I overlooked that important detail!

 

[bibliophile birds]

I'm just saying it is wrong to judge a man like Salatin because of his personal politics or his religion, when those things have nothing to do with his contributions as a sustainable farmer outside the fact his motivation might be different from mine.

my issue isn't about his actual beliefs... it is about the RIPPLE effect of beliefs. i have a degree in Religion so you certainly aren't going to find me out telling people they can't believe one way or another. same for the p-word.

it's the effect that those beliefs have. so, hypothetically, if his personal beliefs dictated that women were weaklings who should only work in the house, that would totally disgust me, but i would still know that it was his RIGHT to think that way and i would probably not bother him about it. but if that belief meant that he refused to help educate willing women farmers, then it becomes an issue. (again, this is hypothetical. i do understand this isn't the motivation.) in that sense, personal beliefs do start to have something to do with someone's contributions to a movement because it is detrimental.