Joel Salatin

[bibliophile birds]

i read Pastured Poultry Profits in a few days. i couldn't put it down. i thought the ideas were amazing and Joel was a great man to look up to. then i watched Food, Inc. and i thought even more highly of him. so i went looking for more of his works. Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal sounded really interesting.

now, i love reading negative reviews on Amazon. for some reason i think they often tell you more about a book than the glowing ones, not because they are valid, but because the crazies usually notice interesting things and then rant about them in negative reviews. i take it all with a VERY BIG grain of salt, but sometimes i come across something that makes me wonder. like this:

However, beware of making assumptions about Joel. The vast majority of his customers and fans are interested in organic foods, have an environmentalist bent, and are politically liberal. They may assume that Joel is like them -- but be assured that he certainly is not. Joel hates all those things. He is a fundamentalist Christian creationist and his politics are somewhere to the right of Dick Cheney.

A few examples: He shoots any non-farm animal that comes on his property (including dogs, rare martens, and birds of prey), and does it with an enthusiasm that is disturbing for a so-called "poster boy for humane agriculture." This "ecological farmer" opposes wilderness areas, endangered species protection, and farmland preservation and would like to see all land privatized to be milked for all its worth in the name of "property rights." He compares animal-rights supporters and vegetarians to abortionists. And that's just a few of the chapters.

this reviewer claims to be a "grass-fed livestock farmer living near Joel Salatin" and someone who has bought, and enjoyed, Joel's products. i don't think that makes them an expert on all things Salatin, but i think their comments might have struck a cord in the back of my mind. not that i was sitting around thinking there had to be something wrong with him, but there was a certain underlying feeling i got from PPP that he wasn't exactly who i thought his was. that's not Joel's fault, that's my idealizing of him, but it's made me think.

his personal politics and beliefs don't in any way change my regard for his methods as far as personal farming go, but now i'm hesitant to read more of his books. especially Everything I Want to Do Is Illegal, since i've heard he spends more time talking about abortion and social security than talking about local, sustainable food. i guess the reason i'm posting this is because i know several people on here are better acquainted with his work than i am and i'm interested to see what they have to say. i don't want to base my opinions on negative Amazon reviews.

 

[freemotion]

Here is how I look at it. But know that I seem spend most of my time well off the beaten path!

If I felt I could only learn from people who believed EVERYTHING exactly the way I did, I would certainly be narrowing my options a LOT. So my philosophy is to take what I want to use and read the rest as "interesting." The mind is like a parachute....it only works when it is open!

As for the critic quoted....sounds like at least some facts are being twisted. A forum thread once brought up my own religion, and I was shocked at how people I thought I knew were so quick to repeat blatant falsehoods (not the OP, just some of the responders.) One particular person I used to admire....well, I have nothing to say, so shocked was I at the venom. So I will take comments such as those of that Amazon critic with a very large block of salt.

I look forward to your book reviews....please post them for us!

 

[Beekissed]

This "ecological farmer" opposes wilderness areas, endangered species protection, and farmland preservation and would like to see all land privatized to be milked for all its worth in the name of "property rights."

Now, I'm a Joel fan but even I don't agree with some of his views....but the above comments don't fall in with what he states in his own books, so they sound rather like sour grapes, envy, whatever.

Joel promotes woodlands on his own farms and does everything he can to develop natural, thriving woodlots for the wildlife that live there. Even to denying himself the lands for extra pasture. Same with his ponds~he seems to work very hard to preserve the delicate ecosystems on all parts of his farms.

I don't pretend to know his personal policies about politics and religion, nor do I care to know them~nor anyone else's, for that matter.

I read his books because they contain valuable info on farming methods that really, really make more sense than anything else I've seen or read before.

His personal life? Could not care less than I do right now!

 

[bibliophile birds]

If I felt I could only learn from people who believed EVERYTHING exactly the way I did, I would certainly be narrowing my options a LOT. So my philosophy is to take what I want to use and read the rest as "interesting." The mind is like a parachute....it only works when it is open!

i agree with you on that. i often read things by people i completely disagree with just so i can be prepared to debate the issues.

i guess it was just a bit of a shock that someone who seems to groove with my personal ideals about sustainability being not just about personal sustainability but environmental, economic, and social sustainability as well, might actually see things vastly differently. again, not Joel's fault, but it gave me pause.

 

[freemotion]

I bet a lot of those remarks in the Amazon review were exaggerated. It had an hysterical note to it. I find that the more secure people are in their own beliefs, the better able they are to have a calm discussion. It always amuses me when people "celebrate diversity.....unless they don't think or act just like me! Then SHUT THEM UP!"

Read the book. Enjoy the parts you agree with. Ignore the parts you don't. Then tell us what both were. I, for one, will enjoy reading your thoughts. Whether I agree with them or not! And I bet most people here will enjoy your comments, too. I've had a hard...no, impossible time...getting his books through our library system. I don't have much of a book budget this year. :/

 

[PamsPride]

A few examples: He shoots any non-farm animal that comes on his property (including dogs, rare martens, and birds of prey)

Wishes I could do that without causing a feud with me neighbor!!

 

[Lady Henevere]

I don't think the reviewer is wrong. I have been working my way through Everything I Want to Do is Illegal for months now, and it is, in essence, a libertarian whine. He wants the government out of his life and off his farm. He does not like any aspect of governmental control that makes his life harder or more expensive. He complains about child labor laws (he doesn't think there should be any), taxes, zoning (again, he doesn't think there should be any), and just about every other restriction imposed in modern life. Peppered throughout are examples about how smart he is with respect to how he does things, and how dumb everyone else is for doing them differently. It's a lot of complaining about existing laws and practices, which is why it's taking me so long to get through this book.

As for his abortion stance, he thinks abortion has undermined Social Security and drives illegal immigration. Here's a quote, where he's complaining about the state of Social Security:

Of course, if our civilization hadn't killed 50 million babies that would have been paying into the system right now the shortfall would not have been as acute.
That is why we allow continued inflows of illegal aliens. We can't afford to stop the flow because these are the folks prepping up Social Security. And they are doing the work that aborted babies would have been doing right now. We've executed our work force and must now accept whatever we can get.

(p. 258.)

As for other species in nature, they bother his chickens and he would prefer that they not do that:

I think we need to bring back the hawk feathered headdress. That would create commercial hawk value and people would begin hunting them again.

(p. 163.) He also describes a nighttime hunt resulting in a dead marten, as mentioned in the review.

Some of the book, such as his discussions about getting his beef slaughtered, are good examples of how our system is geared heavily toward industrial-scale agriculture, to the extent that such laws are harmful to a family farm. Most of the book, however, is about more peripheral issues and have more to do with personal political views rather than farming.

 

[Big Daddy]

It's too bad you can't edit and sale other peoples books. Sounds like Joel has a lot of good ideas mixed in with a lot of garbage. If you could edit all the good stuff out you could resell it to everybody. I would not read one of his books just based on what I have read here. All the garbage would make me upset.

 

[bibliophile birds]

It's too bad you can't edit and sale other peoples books. Sounds like Joel has a lot of good ideas mixed in with a lot of garbage. If you could edit all the good stuff out you could resell it to everybody. I would not read one of his books just based on what I have read here. All the garbage would make me upset.

i think that's kind of what's bothering me. why can't we just talk about the things that are important about the sustainable movement and leave politics, liberal or conservative, out of it. i mean, there are going to be topics we can't avoid (like bureaucratic red tape and farm subsidies). but instead of talking about personal social ideologies, we should try to go with what we have in common so that we can work together and make progress.

don't let any of this stop you from reading Pastured Poultry Profits. that is a great example of Joel self-editing and almost completely staying on topic. it's a very very insightful book with great methods in it.

 

[Iceblink]

I have read quite a few of Joel's books, and while I think some of his ideas are great, I don't agree with others. I have known people who used his ideas and tried to make a go of it, but ultimately didn't suceed. The author of "Hit By A Farm" tried to raise chickens a la Salatin, and I think her conclusion really sums up a lot of my feelings towards Joel; she said she thought he must have made more money by selling his ideas than using them.