New Oil--what cost?

[chickenone]

So maybe it all boils down to the forbidden word: overpopulation

Our world is only capable of supporting so many people and we just keep on pumping out kids at an alarming rate.

But IF we lived as our grandparents lived, with no gas or electric...sustainably with gardens and livestock...we wouldn't have to worry about overpopulation. Life is too easy right now.

But we don't and we can't all live that way. Who is going to provide a plot of land for every city dweller? There wouldn't be enough land to go around, I would wager.

 

[Wannabefree]

So maybe it all boils down to the forbidden word: overpopulation

Our world is only capable of supporting so many people and we just keep on pumping out kids at an alarming rate.

But IF we lived as our grandparents lived, with no gas or electric...sustainably with gardens and livestock...we wouldn't have to worry about overpopulation. Life is too easy right now.

But we don't and we can't all live that way. Who is going to provide a plot of land for every city dweller? There wouldn't be enough land to go around, I would wager.

Actually I think there would be plenty of land to go around. The government owns a lot of land that could produce crops. I have 1.488 acres and am producing 75%+ of what I need for the year, including meat. Lots of people here have upwards of 50 acres...most of it growing nothing but grass and weeds It could be done, fairly easily I believe.

 

[chickenone]

But IF we lived as our grandparents lived, with no gas or electric...sustainably with gardens and livestock...we wouldn't have to worry about overpopulation. Life is too easy right now.

But we don't and we can't all live that way. Who is going to provide a plot of land for every city dweller? There wouldn't be enough land to go around, I would wager.

Actually I think there would be plenty of land to go around. The government owns a lot of land that could produce crops. I have 1.488 acres and am producing 75%+ of what I need for the year, including meat. Lots of people here have upwards of 50 acres...most of it growing nothing but grass and weeds It could be done, fairly easily I believe.

so you would take those acres away from people that own them?

 

[dragonlaurel]

Lots of farmers are getting into their retirement years and having a hard time keeping up with all the work. Some of the landless people could rent farmland from them.

Maybe even do something along the lines of a community garden, with it. Members would be able to have nice sized gardens and the farmer could scale back to whatever level they are comfortable with.

Or buy food direct from the farmer even. It doesn't have to be a bad situation.

 

[Wifezilla]

Here is a map of how much land is owned by the federal gvnmt...
http://bigthink.com/ideas/21343
And no...it isn't all parks.

 

[Dunkopf]

Here is a map of how much land is owned by the federal gvnmt...
http://bigthink.com/ideas/21343
And no...it isn't all parks.

Not much help there. Almost every red section of land shown is arid desert. It would require massive amounts of amendments to grow anything edible. Then it would have to be irrigated. We don't have enough fresh water for our current growth. On top of that they want to use millions on acre feet of water to get shale out of the ground and natural gas. Maybe we could get some dehydrated water .

Now further east they could just close all the national parks and turn them into farms.

Sure there are a lot of people that own big parcels of land. They are sitting on it for future use. They could encourage sale of that land and then subdivide it into small parcels for farming. Still have to drill multiple wells.

Water is becoming a very big issue around the entire world. There will be wars fought over water in the near future. That's why they can't use water to extract shell and natural gas. We just don't have the water to go around.

Any where you go in the west with the exception of the coast line, requires irrigation to produce crops. It either comes from Aquifers or it comes from giant irrigation culverts that get their water from the Colorado river. Those alf alfa fields in AZ aren't natural. In Texas you rarely see anything besides cattle grazing on land that will feed 1 cow per acre. Now everyone should have a garden and there should be a lot more community gardens. That's what the first lady was trying to say when she started the garden at the WH. Of course she got a lot of jokes made about her. Certain people can never admit when something is good unless they did it themselves.

Keep on dreaming folks.

 

[valmom]

So, what is wrong with alternative energy instead of drinking all this oil? Every city building should have the roof covered with solar panels with a grid tie system. Wasted sun space- tons of it - in every city. Meanwhile, they cover perfectly good land (around here) with an acre or 2 of solar panels. Why? Makes no sense when there are perfectly good roofs everywhere that could have panels on them that are already wired into the system.

And, water will be the "new oil" in the near future, only with more vicious wars being fought over it because it is a life necessity, not just a commodity that we burn up.

 

[Wifezilla]

Not much help there. Almost every red section of land shown is arid desert. It would require massive amounts of amendments to grow anything edible. Then it would have to be irrigated. We don't have enough fresh water for our current growth.

"Savory won the 2010 Buckminster Fuller Challenge Prize of $100,000 for the Africa Center for Holistic Management (ACHM) in Zimbabwe by demonstrating that by INCREASING the number of livestock on barren land by 400% we can convert it from desert back to productive grassland:

"Desertification is occurring on 25% of the land area of Earth, degrading 73% of the world's rangelands and causing widespread poverty. By reversing desertification, we could create innumerable positive consequences: mitigating climate change, droughts and floods, and reducing poverty, social breakdown, violence and genocide. Yet most attempts to date have not only been ineffective, but have been band-aid solutions that do not address its real "root" causes. Enter Semi-Finalist Allan Savory and his surprising trimtab approach to reversing desertification that he calls "holistic rangeland management." Nearly the exact opposite of prevailing theories that blame desertification on overgrazing, Savory's solution centers on dramatically increased livestock numbers to reverse desertification. The tremendous success of Savory's counter-intuitive solution is evidenced through his work with Operation Hope at the Africa Center for Holistic Management (ACHM) in Zimbabwe. For hundreds of years the 6,500 acres of the ACHM were barren, dry fields until 1992 when Savory increased the livestock by 400% and managed them through holistic, planned grazing. Over time, the barren fields were transformed into green grass and open water, full of water lilies and fish.

Did you get that? By increasing livestock by 400% and managing their grazing to mimic patterns of wild grazing animals this project turned deserts into grasslands and wetlands."
http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/03/operation-hope-meat-is-medicine-for.html