Obese Dog...what to do?

[Wifezilla]

Micronutrients (vitamins.minerals)...yes...bagged dog foods have those right. They get a total fail on the macronutrients though.

As for starvation and the lack of hunger, the appetite can disappear for a bit as a lack of high insulin levels (caused by removing the grains from the diet) can cause a release of fatty acids from the fat cells.

Deprivation (or periods of deprivation followed by abundance) can cause psychological issues not only in pets but in people.
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/metabolism/is-a-calorie-always-a-calorie/

 

[Wildsky]

A good idea perhaps is to give raw meaty bones now and then, the dog can sit and chew and feel like they're getting something, excersizing the jaw muscles etc...

I try give my girl raw bones whenever possible.

I leave food out for my dog all the time, she's young still and not overweight, she gets raw bits now and then.
(when we get our beef from the processor we'll have a lot more to feed her)

She's used to having her bowl with food available 24/7 - if it gets empty and we fill it, she goes nuts and eats till she throws up. As it goes now, she'll eat a couple of bites now and then, hardly anything as she waits for us to eat to see what I've got left for her

 

[savingdogs]

Dog foods are balanced diets

No they aren't. Corn and soy are not "balanced" at all. Dogs did not evolve to process these grains.

As for vets, their nutrition training consists of about an hour...often sponsored by pet food companies.

Walk in to a vet's office and you will often see a display case filled with Science Diet or Hill's brand dog food. It is corn based and they make a very nice profit off of each bag they sell. Of COURSE they wouldn't recommend a BARF diet or other evolutionary-based eating plan. It cuts in to their profits.

Dogs and cats feed grains can often be healthy for years. A young animal's body can fight off the damage to their blood vessels, livers, pancreas, and heart for a time. But as they age, damage accumulates. Arthritis, heart disease, obesity, diabetes, skin issues...all this gets blamed on them getting older or "environmental toxins" while the real cause is the food they eat every day.

I will have to respectfully disagree here. While I have to agree corn and soy are not necessarily the best ingredients for dogs to be eating, the dog foods recommended by my veterinarians have a variety of ingredients for a variety of medical problems as well as natural human grade healthful ingredients and many sold at the office where I work have absolutely no corn or soy (Solid Gold).
We have a store near us that makes a tidy profit selling the BARF diet, if a veterinarian makes a profit selling one food, why would they avoid selling another? Profit is not the reason they do not recommend BARF.

Incidentely, there are a few that do....veterinarians are not all walking in lock step or are exactly alike.

All vets are not necessarily out to steal your money. I have personally known individuals that are nice, concerned, trained professionals who really do care about nutrition and animals and have had, I assure you, many hours of nutritional training, not an hour. I've seen many a skeptical eyebrow raised at "nutritional training" provided by ALL food manufacturers because some really honestly want what is best for their patients and personal animals. If they really were only concerned about profit, they would not have chosen veterinary as their profession as the ratio of years of education vs. eventual salary is not necessarily a lucrative one.

Another point is that all of those diseases I listed require long term treatment and frequent office visits. By "prescribing" expensive dog foods that cause damage to the internal organs, they are really creating a rather nice income for themselves. I am being a bit cynical because I really don't believe they aren't doing it on purpose. These vets honestly think they are helping their patients. They just really have no clue they are slowly harming pets and causing more health problems because they were trained by the people who made the poison.

Here again, I have to respectfully disagree. Many of the prescription foods are designed to protect very specific internal organs, such as bladder, kidney, liver, etc. based on veterinarians working with some of the companies to develop diets that do not aggravate but rather alleviate medical problems based on science.

While some people are educated enough to create a healthful diet for their pets, more often what is seen in veterinary offices is people creating obesity and sickness for their animals by creating a diet based on incomplete education. In the case of liver or kidney disease, prescription diets can lengthen the life of an animal. In the case of cats with urinary issues, it can literally save their life because the owner is ready to euthanize a cat because it will not stop inappropriate urination but the food changes that. But the most common problem is folks just feeding their pets just too darn much so a good place to start is the guidelines on the bag. I agree some bags have inappropriate amounts and you have to continue to monitor your pets weight.

Wifezilla I have found your other posts very helpful and interesting and respect that you also have reasons for having your opinions. I have to, however, speak up for the wonderful and caring veterinarians I have known who are not at all anything like your description here, and, after all, have their own pets they care about just as much as we all do about ours. I'm sure with the amount of time and thought you have put into it, you are the kind of person who can create a healthful diet for your pet, but it is not the kind of thing everyone can do and for them, pre-made high quality prepared kibble is a good choice especially if you don't feed too much and supplement with fresh, wholesome foods such as carrots, pumpkin, green beans, cottage cheese, chicken, rice. Vets want you to cook the chicken because of possible bacteria/salmonella, etc. If you know your chicken source and trust it, you have eliminated their largest concern.

I want to be self sufficient, but I don't think that means going without doctors. I'd rather have all their knowledge for myself and try to apply it to my self sufficient life. Again, I respect your opinion and hope we can agree next time we both post on the same thread, I've enjoyed many of your posts, my perspective has just been different.

 

[savingdogs]

I'm sorry, somehow part of my reply to Wifezilla appeared in the middle of my "quote" of her. I don't know how you all make several quotes of a person appear, but my first reply to her appears in the body of her text.......
Sorry I'm a newbie to forums...

 

[tortoise]

"Deprivation (or periods of deprivation followed by abundance) can cause psychological issues not only in pets but in people."

According to the Small Animal Clinical Nutrition, 3rd Edition (and 4th) deprivation is appropriate for dogs, HOWEVER, potentially fatal in cats.

The dogs had no interest in food before beginning their fasting, so that theory doesn't hold up.

If you talk to a vet that doesn't agree with raw feeding, they will talk about it being the same at a cellular or atomic level, which is a valid point to some degree.

I can go round and round on this. I'm a raw feeder (on a temporary break) living with a vet that feeds Science Diet. He did try Evo for 2 large bags with me teasing him about feeding his dog crap, but his dog showed no difference. OTOH, he doesn't freak when his dog gets into a gut pile or if I toss a whole deer head to my dog.

WifeZilla - I am totally in support of your point!, just not the "information" you back it up with.

 

[Ldychef2k]

I try very hard to not be confrontational, and sometimes I almost make it. This will not be one of those times, but I will be careful anyway.

I am absolutely furious that anyone would use starvation of an animal as a weight loss technique. This is abuse and ought to be grounds for arrest. Had I the means, I would send the authorities to remove any animal from such a person and see to it they were prosecuted. To think that withholding nourishment is an acceptable weight loss strategy is sick and clearly demonstrates an inner hatred that is at the very least inhumane.

That was as calm as I could possibly be.

 

[buckeye lady]

We've always free fed our dogs. Only fat dog I ever had was a 36# sheltie She was an "easy keeper". Turned out she was hypothyroid. Once she was on thyroid medication her wt dropped to an acceptable #28. Maybe a vet check with some labwork before developing a diet plan.
I totally agree with moving away from the grain based diet. Read those labels. Another added benefit to a less grain diet is the reduction in gas production.

 

[freemotion]

 

[tortoise]

I try very hard to not be confrontational, and sometimes I almost make it. This will not be one of those times, but I will be careful anyway.

I am absolutely furious that anyone would use starvation of an animal as a weight loss technique. This is abuse and ought to be grounds for arrest. Had I the means, I would send the authorities to remove any animal from such a person and see to it they were prosecuted. To think that withholding nourishment is an acceptable weight loss strategy is sick and clearly demonstrates an inner hatred that is at the very least inhumane.

That was as calm as I could possibly be.

It was done under supervision of a veterinarian to save the dog's life.

The abusive person was the one who allowed the dog to nearly eat itself to death, IMO!

The dog now has a happy home as a therapy dog. Without the diet, it would certainy be dead. He couldn't even walk anymore when he came into my home!

 

[Wifezilla]

the most common problem is folks just feeding their pets just too darn much

Pets do not overeat UNLESS the food they are getting is biologically inappropriate OR they have an underlying health issue (like hypothyroid).

Grains trigger a raise in blood glucose. This triggers insulin release. This leads to nutrients being shoved in to and being trapped in the fat cells. The dog's brain, not sensing the free flowing nutrients in the blood stream like there is supposed to be, sends out a hunger signal even though the dog just ate. The dog eats more and the cycle begins again.

Many of the prescription foods are designed to protect very specific internal organs, such as bladder, kidney, liver, etc. based on veterinarians working with some of the companies to develop diets that do not aggravate but rather alleviate medical problems based on science.

If they do not understand that a dog is not "designed" (so to speak) to digest grains and starches, they are not going to design biologically appropriate food. If they do not understand the effect of raised blood sugar and high insulin levels (organ damage), any additives they put in the grains to counteract the damage is going to be a wash AT BEST.

As for my pets (cats), they are still on kibble. I tried to feed them raw, but Cookie is 20 and not interested in a diet change. Xena (13) isn't either. I am sure if I only had Zeus, he would go for it, but he is only 2. Instead I use a high protein, low carbohydrate food that is meat based. There are several brands to choose from.

Not perfect, but still WAY better nutritionally than the prescription food coming from the vet's office and about half the price.