pies in a jar and other historical pie preservation questions

[k15n1]

Pie is my favorite way to consume... anything. So when I found this, I was interested in how to make my own pies-in-a-jar:

http://www.permies.com/t/4565/cooking/jar-pie-years

But, is it safe? I don't know. Here's my thoughts:

You can preserve pie filling but only with certain thickeners. Thick stuff takes forever to transfer the heat throughout the jar and I guess the duration and temp break down some kinds of starch to the point that they may not hold the filling together. But there's some temperature sensitive thickeners that are runny when hot and survive canning to set into a nice jelly.

Pie crust is not sterile and needs preservation. I typically have a batch or two of crust in the refrigerator and it goes bad after a few weeks. (Solution: leftovers pot pie whenever possible. All those layers would make heat transfer a difficulty. A crust on the top of the pie would probably be OK but it would take a long time to brown in the jar, if it ever did.

There was some cake-in-a-jar talk a while back, usually with banana "bread". Found an article where some scientists inoculated the jars with C. botulinum and tested for the toxins after a certain time period. Turns out canning bread/cake doesn't kill the bad stuff. Maybe this is in the same vein.

HOWEVER, I understand that pies were used back-in-the-day to preserve meat and fruit. I've looked all over on the interwebs and can only find modern overly paranoid advice about throwing out a pie after 2 days. But I thought I heard some guy on the food network mention that his family made 100 blackberry pies every fall---this absurd number of pies implies that they were doing it to preserve the fruit. But how long did the pies last? In what condition should they be kept? Were the pies vented? Covered/sealed with lard? So many questions! Anyone know about preservation of food via pie?

 

[ORChick]

I did not read the whole thread at the link you posted, so maybe these points were covered and I didn't see them. Anyway, for what its worth, here are my thoughts.

I have read of meat pies being made and stored in the past. I am tempted to do some research now to try to find out about them. Without the research though, and off the top of my head --- these types of pies would have been made with a very sturdy crust, not at all like the nice flaky ones we are used to today in our fruit pies. The pie, after baking, would have been filled (through a funnel through a hole cut in the crust) with a strong broth/gelatin liquid, to cover the contents, and then gel, protecting the ingredients. They also would have been stored in a very cool larder - room temperature these days, in most N. American homes, bears no resemblance whatsoever to room temperature in times past. I'm not sure how long these sorts of pies might keep, but don't imagine that they would have been kept more than a week or so - by which I mean that only sufficient for a week or so would have been made, and then more would be made when the first ones had been eaten.
Personally, I really dislike soggy crusts, so I would always want to make a fruit or dessert pie fresh. But I have vague memories of making such a meat pie as I described above once ages ago, and rather liking it. Though I have no idea at all anymore whether I tried to keep it for any time.
I can't imagine that canning anything with a crust could be even remotely successful, unless your idea of a tasty crust differs wildly from mine
As an afternote: My solution to keeping pies available would be to make and freeze pie crusts, and make and freeze or can fillings, and then make them up as needed/wanted. Some people have success freezing already baked pies, but I have never really liked the results when I do that. However, even this isn't a long term (as in many month or years) solution for the pie lover, as frozen pie pastry doesn't remain good forever, even well wrapped.

 

[ORChick]

A bit of research pulled up two famous meat pies. Neither of these says anything about their keeping qualities, but a bit more research might take one to more historical records. If nothing else, you could make these (maybe small ones), and do your own experiment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/meltonmowbrayporkpie_92224

http://www.canadianliving.com/food/cooking_school/tourtiere_recipe_and_instructions.php

 

[baymule]

Preserving pies in a jar........never happen around here! I did can some zucchini pie filling, but without the thickener, just zucchini, spices, sugar and lemon juice. Haven't tried it yet, waiting on a cold nasty rainy day when imitation apple pie will be comfort food.

 

[moolie]

Funny, I just made 3 Turkey Pies with leftover turkey from our Sunday Thanksgiving meal--but once cooled mine went into the freezer.

I've read in several places that during the Middle Ages people didn't eat pie crust--it was simply a vessel for the food baked in it, kinda like "soup in a bread bowl" where you don't eat the bowl. A much coarser type of pastry than we like now. Never heard of pies as preservation though, and any good pie wouldn't last long around my house so I doubt it was a very "successful" preservation method

 

[k15n1]

We've never had pies last very long around here, either.

Wheat has always been an expensive product so I can't imagine that the crust was thrown out. Aristocrats and kings may have only eaten the filling but I'm sure the peasants ate whatever they could get their hands on.

I did read about pork pies, like what ORChick posted. I think they were portable and kept OK for a few days in cool weather but I don't think it was a preservation method, per se. The gelatin fill couldn't have been a great strategy from a micro-biology point of view. I'm sure it helped but not long term. I'm sure they were too delicious to last in the pantry, anyhow.

Pork shoulder is about 1.50 $/lb around here. That's an argument in favor of pork pies if there ever was one.

 

[moolie]

The Wiki article for "pie" is actually pretty interesting, although I'm sure there's tons more info out there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie

Here's a few articles I found when searching on "pie history"--interesting stuff

http://www.everythingpies.com/history-of-pie.html

http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/PieHistory.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/9178039/A-brief-history-of-the-humble-pie.html

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodpies.html

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1862315,00.html

http://thehistorykitchen.com/2011/07/04/the-history-of-pie-in-america/

 

[Daffodils At The Sea]

From what I'm understanding in reading about pies in a jar, it's a way to freeze it successfully, then thaw and use it as needed, also for easy transport on picnics, etc. If the crust is in the jar as well, it's not about preserving it in the traditional canned, nonrefrigerated sense, because there wouldn't be enough acid in the crust to keep it safe. Even canning low acid vegetables, like beans, need lots of extra acid to make the canning process safe.

But canning the fillings alone, high-acid fruits and meat (which is sweetened with sugars and acidic fruit, i.e., mincemeat, to get the acid level up there) works well, because all of the rules of food safety are being followed.

The person at the permies site didn't give enough specifics about what her neighbor did, which would be a really risky thing to try, eating canned bread product two years later. It's not impossible that the neighbor completely misunderstood that a pie in a jar was meant to be a frozen thing, and it was convenient as the jars can be reheated in an oven.

Moolie, those are interesting links. Nice that people are preserving those historical recipes and the histories behind them

 

[TanksHill]

I did the pies in a jar years ago. They baked fine. Mine were not for storage but more for a cute serving dish.

G