Planning my hay purchase in advance: Goat people!

[FarmerChick]

I am a farmer.

I do not see any reason to feed alfalfa hay at all to my goats.

Granted I am in the South and winters are shorter and easier, BUT, remember this,,,,,,if you supp. with feed stuff, (grain, beet pulp, sweet feed, etc. etc.) and have minerals available....then for me you need no other hay then regular type grass hay.

Overkill for me.

Worst you can do is overfeed an animal for their purpose. If it is a backyard animal with no "walking" or exercise in small pastures, etc. etc. then why bother.

the money spent on animal feed is insane.......so go back to basics when feeding animals.

unless you are a "in production" for business type farm and require "exact" perfect proportions of weight per animal, feed weight, and milk production or meat production...don't do it!!!!

I have a meat goat operation for over 10 years....I did the "what if I feed X" like recommended for optimum results per weight on the hoof, etc. etc............well, I cut all that info back to basic feed and hay and still have the same weight on those babies..HA HA HA

So climate, etc. plays a role, but don't be over feeding for what you are doing...and it actually hurts the critter in the end.

Bee mentioned fat farm animals in another post.....hmm....who's are too fat..HA HA...mine sure ain't...but they are well taken care of and I control their feed very much to keep them lean.



oh well.....you know just chatting about critters

 

[freemotion]

So, FC, in your opinion, should I get first or second cut hay?

My primary concern is the goat in lactation, and the doeling I hope to breed who will be pregnant in the winter and kidding just as the pasture is picking up in the spring......that is the plan, anyways, gotta get the goats to read this forum so they will know what is expected of them!

The fat pet goats, I don't feed at all. They get fat picking up leavings. It is insane. They are obese!

I hope to NOT depend on alfalfa pellets, so that is what I am thinking. I will feed just enough to get through each milking, so about a couple pounds per day. I would prefer to feed hay.

Grass hay certainly would be easier. I can't count on all the supplemental goodies, as it depends on the season.

So to clarify.....if hay is the primary.....or even the ONLY feed, grass or alfalfa (in view of the pellet update)? First or second cut?

 

[Beekissed]

Good advice, FC! I'd like to feed Blossom and Lil Betty some good quality hay, as one will be still lactating and the other will be getting bred about the time I really start haying.

I was wondering.....if the hay is a better quality, would you have to feed as much as you would a coarser quality? Would there be less waste?

I, too, will be supplementing with mangels and some winter squash, corn stalks for roughage, sprouted grains for flushing the ewe, etc.

 

[Carolyn]

lactating dairy goats need a calcium/ phosphurus (sp?) rate of 2/1 or heavy milkers 3/1, Grains, sweet feed etc have the phosphurus, so to balance it one should have hay or supplement with high calcuim--I think I lost does to milk fever in the beginning, I don't know because I was new to goats and didn't have internet--but a older woman that had a goat dairy--for many years told me to use alfalfa and I haven't had a problem since. I do expect my does to milk at least 10 months--if they are bred, we do dry them up about 100 days before kidding. I did have a heavy milker that milked for almost 24 months (without kidding with alfalfa)--big Nubian doe out of Cold Comfort and H Homestead lines. Right now 2 of my Minis milked for 18 months without kidding, I think we could have pushed it to 24 months with alfalfa hay instead limited amounts of alfalfa cubes and pellets. I have one of the does daughters and a half sister, and there again, if we would have alfalfa hay instead of cubes and pellets, I think we could have kept them milking as long. I have a friend here that fed grass hay and grain, almost lost the doe, she dropped on the stand and it took a week on CMPK, she did save her, but it was a lot of work and money. For us feeding alfalfa to the dairy does increases the milk product a lot, maintains the weight and for us the milk is money. Also keeping good dairy records gives us a waiting list for kids, both does and bucks. I had a heavy Nubian unregistered milker that milked for 24 months without kidding, had waiting lists for a year for her kids, bucks and does--she kidded every other year, lost her to horned wether that had been with her since he was a kid. Nailed her and broke her neck. Opened her to try to save the kids, but it was too late, lost 4 beautiful doe kids and $400 for day old kids. We take whatever "clean" alfalfa we can get--1st or 2nd cutting. this year I will grab whatever I can get, in a usual year, alfafla runs between $ 50 and $75 a ton. Last year, I could not get alfalfa hay at all. I was told to plan 1 ton of hay per full sized goat doe per year and I think it works out about right. I try to plan more in case--we have a -35 or -40 F winter with 35 or 40 mph wind. I don't know anything about Boer goats. I jsut know that right now--we dont' have enough milk to keep up on soap sales, let alone house milk or milk for cheese or milk for sale ( of course for animal consumption only), got people on a list for that also. Carolyn

 

[freemotion]

Thanks, I think I need to look for alfalfa hay mostly, which runs something like $200-250 per ton here!!! Am I correct in thinking that a 5 quart per day goat is a light producer by today's standards? As I learn more, I don't think Mya has much Boer in her. Not a hint of chunky about her frame at all, and very small upright ears. She has high quality feed available to her free choice.

Oh, wait, just did the math....pellets are about the same price as hay. Maybe I should just get pellets? But I worry about quality with pellets. How do you feed cubes to goats? Soak them?

Why do I make everything so complicated???

I think hay would be healthier, goes in at a slower rate and is a more natural way of eating. Thinking by typing here.

But if I didn't need as much storage space, I could have room for another goat......

So here is my current thinking: FC, your grass hay suggestion for the pygmies and any loafers.

Carolyn, you make great points about the need for more calcium with a lactating doe.

I may just have to get grass hay because it is so readily available and good quality here, and supplement with alfalfa pellets for the lactating and pregnant does. Or get a few bales of nice alfalfa, too, if I can get it, for these does in addition to the pellets on the milking stand.

I have some questions on selling milk, for which I will start another thread. Please watch for it, Wise Goat Ladies!

 

[Carolyn]

we are very limited as to what we can get here--usually alfalfa cubes-no we don't soak them, but if they are in really big chunks, I break them in half. Some people have had goats choke on them, we haven't had any problems. Price of alfalfa cubes now runs about $16.00 for a 50 lb bag, I did find a bale of alfafla that I am saving for close to kidding for $100, 1500 lb bale which will last about a month, maybe more. Six bags of alfalfa cubes would give me 300 lbs--it is concentrated, but still added water might double it--still 600 lbs for $96 vs 1500 lbs for $100. I do pick and choose my hay, I had an older rancher show me how to pull out samples because I bought hay from someone and he thought he was going to pass his nasy stuff on me, there was an older man that came to buy for his cows and a few horses and when he found out that I had good dairy goats, went passed the seller of the hay, took me and showed me how to check for good hay. This time around, people know that I have high quality, good producing goats and this man I bought the alflalfa from even took random samples to show me. It makes better sense to have 10 good producers on alfalfa than 15 or 18 on grass hay for us in our area. I have Nubians and Mini Nubians, except for the couple of high producers--the 2 that milked 1 1/2 + gallons a day, my girls average a gallon (8lbs) to a gallon and a quart a day, but Nubians compare to Jerseys --low in quantity, but high in fat. I like the colors and personality. I understand that other breeds are heavier milkers and that 2 gallons a day might be very normal. I also hear pros and cons about boar crosses- for milking-I have no experience there. We are trying to build up to about a dozen good milkers to milk year around. the first time I had goats, I was milking between 16 and 20. this time I am being careful about how many I have and the quality of the goat I have, better to be in demand

 

[Carolyn]

Ohh Boers have long floppy ears and from the looks of them, very stocky. One of my cousins sons has Boers in Billings MT and he does very well with selling for meat. I would think that if your girl has Boer in her, she might have more airplane ears, but then again I am not sure about Boers. Carolyn

 

[FarmerChick]

So, FC, in your opinion, should I get first or second cut hay?

My primary concern is the goat in lactation, and the doeling I hope to breed who will be pregnant in the winter and kidding just as the pasture is picking up in the spring......that is the plan, anyways, gotta get the goats to read this forum so they will know what is expected of them!

The fat pet goats, I don't feed at all. They get fat picking up leavings. It is insane. They are obese!

I hope to NOT depend on alfalfa pellets, so that is what I am thinking. I will feed just enough to get through each milking, so about a couple pounds per day. I would prefer to feed hay.

Grass hay certainly would be easier. I can't count on all the supplemental goodies, as it depends on the season.

So to clarify.....if hay is the primary.....or even the ONLY feed, grass or alfalfa (in view of the pellet update)? First or second cut?

First cut hay is best....usually. Being in the south, our second cutting of hay is always worse cause of heat/drought stress...if we get that second cutting at all. But quality like it wasn't wet when baled etc. is so important.

Good quality --any type of hay--beats the best of the best hay types out there if they are crappy...LOL

Some goats are super easy keepers....like horses.....some are just fat on 1/2 pint of feed per week...LOL...while some horses require so much feed and still stay lean and mean. You know....

It truly comes down to HOW much you are milking that goat and how much you require of the animal. But for what you do...believe me you ain't stressing her milk levels and body chemistry at all.

Real dairy farms pushing 2 milkings per day, etc. etc. etc. and all that business stuff is down to a science. So do not fret about under feeding for your purpose.

My friend Barb's dairy cattle....those have the electronic feed collars and it triggers the feed per animal, the times of day they can get feed, adds the supps to the feed per animal, etc. etc.....now that is down to a science cause it is their business and need to feed each individual cow to best performance of lbs. of milk....blah, blah.

you know the drill

I don't have pets with my herd. They are all bred at the same time and all kid about the same time, so I don't have to feed some pygmies or anything with the herd....so basically they all get the same thing.

don't panic FM.....your goats will be fine I am sure. You feed too good anyway to worry about them not getting enough..HA HA


edited to say...remember also anything with a hoof, just like a horse, goats will founder and laminitis....and alfalfa will founder a horse faster than grass hay usually. So just be careful in general like you would any hoofed animal. If your goats are ouchy and maybe eating on their knees etc...then they are foundered. So all rules of thumb with hoof maintenance applies to goats.

 

[FarmerChick]

Good advice, FC! I'd like to feed Blossom and Lil Betty some good quality hay, as one will be still lactating and the other will be getting bred about the time I really start haying.

I was wondering.....if the hay is a better quality, would you have to feed as much as you would a coarser quality? Would there be less waste?

I, too, will be supplementing with mangels and some winter squash, corn stalks for roughage, sprouted grains for flushing the ewe, etc.

yea, better hay is better eaten than coarser hay but it also depends on the animal. A cow will eat what a goat won't. And a goat will eat what a horse won't...LOL

hay waste is a definite usually...yea I hate the waste too but it sure happens...especially with goats....they can manage to put poop and p into any hay situation..HA HA HA


But hay is the most important thing to a rumen. Without it they don't function simple as that so before worrying about the tons of supps. etc. ---just a decent feed and tons of good hay makes for a healthy farm animal.

 

[freemotion]

Yep, that has been my philosopy with my horses, hay-hay-hay! Grain only if needed with a horse who is working hard and a hard keeper. But better quality hay that the hard keeper favors would still be my first choice.

And my goats are pets, too, and I will not have too many (purposely built a two-stall shed-type barn with storage for 100 bales so I couldn't end up with too many animals!) so I have more options in some ways. Living in suburbia gives me few options in other ways.

I will try to get some good alfalfa hay, but now I won't obsess about it, since I can fall back on pellets.

I do have an area of my pasture that is on my project list for this fall, to prepare it for planting something for the goats. I will fence it out so the chickens and goats can't get to it. It is in part sun/part shade, but very rich dirt, and is a huge mound of stumps and dirt that was piled up to rot for 10 years or more when we cleared the forest for the pasture. It is being overtaken with cherries, sumac, poke, multiflora, jewelweed, and raspberries. So I gotta get on top of it before it gets too out of control.

What should I plant on it? I am thinking something like peas and oats, buckwheat? Something I can cut and dry as a nice supplement hay if possible, and turn the girls onto it in the fall as the pasture starts to die back, to finish it off. This will be next spring, as I will have a huge job grubbing out all those trees and such. Are bean plants good for goats, anyone know?

Or I might make that into a nice little buck pasture, with the hill to exercise on. Who knows!