Presidential Debate--who watched?

[annmarie]

Thanks ScottyG. My blood pressure just settled down to a normal level. I appreciate the time you took, and your eloquence in explaining where many of us are coming from. :coolsun

 

[me&thegals]

ScottyG, another huge thanks! It gets tiring to hear the word "government" bandied about as an evil word. It's huge, it's probably often corrupt and usually inefficient, but it also does a tremendous lot of good in our lives. Those who don't believe so should do a bit of world travel to see how well ours actually works.

And I agree that politicians really do want to do what's good for our country. Obviously, I disagree with what some of them believe to be best and have never found a candidate who embodied ALL my values. I suppose some could be campaigning purely on a power trip, but yikes! Who would willingly put themselves through the campaign process without at least some desire to better our country?

 

[FarmerChick]

WOW---interesting thread this turned out to be! I got back from camping and wanted to read this thread first cause I saw all the new posts, thinking, UT OH, it might be a screamer! LOL----Nope, all the posts were very well written and no one got nasty and I surely could smile about the fact that this new forum of posters are just "good people" and ain't going down the nasty trail!

I just thought I would write that first before I type about politics. Too tired from camping and who knows what I might write right now..HA HA

One thing I wanted to address is the race thing with Obama. I surely think most people would not sway their vote according to race, but alot of people out there ARE going to. Cause being down south in NC many old timers flat out say they ain't voting no *&^^% into office and that is final. They are all voting McCain regardless of his stand basically. So I just thought I would throw that out cause I have heard people say they are NOT voting for him and are casting their ballot for McCain on their old timey feelings. Now this is not to cause a stir or anything, just stating what old southern timers have said around here. Just a point to remember cause there are ALOT of old timers in this nation and I surely do not see Obama walking into the white house without a real race here. It is interesting to just see how the times change, and another poster, can't remember who wrote it said, the good old times are over...they sure are. We will and can never go back to the simple times, this global world will not allow it....Hmmm....so I will make MY OWN simple life for myself..HA HA...see I win..HA HA

off I go to do 700 loads of laundry....OH and Tony caught 11 trout. YUMMY....Yippee!!

 

[roosmom]

It is nice to see you back. Enjoy the fish, or did you already?

 

[FarmerChick]

hey RM
yup, we grilled some of the trout at the campsite......definitely nothing like fresh trout!

some are home frozen now for later.....will definitely eat soon cause I just don't like fish frozen too long!

Hope all is going good for you!

 

[VT-Chicklit]

I am curious why people seem to think it is in their best interest for government to be responsible for their health care. Our government is notorious for being wastefull (at best) with our money and spends it with wanton disregard (at worst). We have laws already that prevent the refusal of emergency care to anyone, even those who can not pay. We even pay for the healthcare of those who have broken our laws and are in our jails, those who are here in this country illegally, those who are shot on the other side of our southern border and rushed to US hospitals because we have the best care. . . and so on. Our government is notorious for their boon doggles. With $600 toilet seats and $500 hammers, what makes anyone think the federal government can mannage your health care in an effecive manner. Is everyone forgetting that medicare will be insolvent soon and the new "part D" drug plan has MAJOR cost over runs! Dont forget that all those who will create this new healthcare plan for the masses are lobbied daily by the drug companies, the insurance companies, the AMA ect! By turning over a health care system that may be expensive but is basically working pretty well, to the beaurocracy in Washington you are inviting chaos. Remember FEMA and Katrina and remember FannyMae and FreddyMac who because of government interfearance in the morgage industry (and kickbacks to key legislators) have cause the greatest financial crisis since the Great Depression. These are only two of many instances where government interfearance has caused HUGE problems! Rember that no matter which party you are affiliated with or if you lean left or right, the other side will be incharge form time to time. Do you want them inchargeof your health!

Those who use the Canadian system as an example of a great "Free" health care sysem dont tell you that the Canadians pay dearly for their system. They pay both with huge taxes and in the quality and quantity of care. The system is not bad if you are healthy, but if you really have problems there is a form of rationing. In the states if you need an MRI you can get one quickly but in Canada you may have to wait a year. There is less equipment and facilities to spread around because of huge costs. Surgeries may take months after all the testing is done because of limited availability of operating rooms. Emergencies will get priority but everyone else goes "on the list". Depending where you live also plays a part in how quick you recieve care.

I injured my knee in a fall about 1 1/2 years ago and needed surgery. I had torn my meniscus in 3 places and it was quite painful. I had an MRI to verify the type of injury. After the swelling had gone down, my doctor ordered the MRI. I had it within 2 weeks of it being ordered. My surgery was set up for 1 month after after the MRI. A friend of mine (who is Canadian and lives outside of Montreal) was surprised at how quickly I was taken care of. She told me, if I lived in Canada and used their system I would have waited many months just to get the MRI, never mind the surgery! I live in a very rural area but yet this care was available to me. These things are quality of life issues and the quality of life here in the US is pretty good (not necessarily perfect). Yes I could have survived with out the MRI and surgery but I am thankful that I didnt have to. Even those people who say they cannot afford some of the care available here in the US still get more and better care than most people in the world. Additionally, many hospitals and doctors will give you a payment plan and if you have low income they will prorate their costs, if you apply and work with them. You try that with the IRS.

Government is not the ansewer to your problems, in many cases they are the problem! When the government is spending your money you are not getting value for what you are paying for.

 

[reinbeau]

VT-Chicklit, you have it so right, but not many think the way we do. They want big daddy Government to take care of them. And again I'll say if you're on a self-sufficiency forum you really shouldn't be looking for anyone to take care of you.

 

[Zenbirder]

And again I'll say if you're on a self-sufficiency forum you really shouldn't be looking for anyone to take care of you.

reinbeau,
May I respectfully say that I found this comment disturbing from a moderator. This thread has been amaziing in that this group has a diversity of backgrounds, ideas etc., and yet there has not been flaming or other nasties that would shut it down. Your comment can be taken, as was by me, to mean that "If you don't think the way I think on this subject then you shouldn't be on a self sufficiency forum". I would like to give you the benefit of doubt that perhaps you typed faster than you thought, as we all do from time to time. May I invite you to rephrase your comment to accurately reflect your stand as a moderator?

 

[patandchickens]

I am curious why people seem to think it is in their best interest for government to be responsible for their health care.

Because there's nothing else that EVERYONE has access to? Rich, poor, employed, unemployed, poorly-employed...

Those who use the Canadian system as an example of a great "Free" health care sysem dont tell you that the Canadians pay dearly for their system. They pay both with huge taxes and in the quality and quantity of care. The system is not bad if you are healthy, but if you really have problems there is a form of rationing.

Well. Of course Americans pay dearly TOO Anyone who's run a business large enough to have to cover health benefits for their employees is very well aware of this, as is anyone who's tried to buy private health insurance or had to pay cash-on-the-barrelhead.

For instance I gather that giving birth to a child in the US, if you do not have coverage thru your employer (e.g. those unemployed, or those employed by a small business, or those self-employed, or those who are too newly employed to be covered) typically runs $5-10,000 for an uncomplicated day-or-two-in-the-hospital thing. Far more of course if there are problems.

In Canada, it costs zippo. Some provinces, even if you want a midwife, still zippo. Free. Complications that would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars in the US and cause you to have to remortgage the house or declare bankruptcy if you were uninsured? Covered too.

The basic utilities of medical care (and personally I would consider having a professionally-attended childbirth to be a basic utility) are taken care of for everyone.

Yes, people have to wait longer for a number of things, but ANYONE can get 'em, not just those who are well off or well employed.

Also, Canada is FAR from the only country in the world with government sponsored health care, and in many countries (e.g. parts of Europe) it works a whole lot better than in Canada, that is, WITHOUT the long backlogs and waits.

It is not a concept to be dismissed out of hand, I think. There is likely always to be some amount of tradeoff between making sure everyone has access to basic medical care vs giving the well-off (and you know what, if you have computer access to BE on this forum, you are well off compared to a large number of people) rapid a la carte access to everything they desire... but I don't see that the first thing is entirely worthless and the second the only desirable one.

JMHO,

Pat

 

[patandchickens]

And again I'll say if you're on a self-sufficiency forum you really shouldn't be looking for anyone to take care of you.

Like Zenbirder I do not think that anyone on this forum, certainly not a moderator, should really be telling other people what they ought to think in order to qualify to be here.

If there is some ideological test ya have to pass to be here, then I am so outta here. (I know there isn't, I'm just saying, if there *became* one...)

I will repeat what I said before -- honestly Reinbeau I have no idea what your reply at the time was supposed to mean, sorry -- I do not think that the concepts of 'government' or 'self-sufficiency', or the issues involved in either one, are NEARLY as simple as all that.

We ALL depend on other people for some things. It is merely a question of who and what.

Pat