Shiloh Acres - RAIN!!!!!!! and maple syrup! ;)

[Shiloh Acres]

Wow, sorry to hear about your friend's llama.

I have only a female now. The little male died. I had planned to neuter him though, but I think you need to wait until they are two years old. The man I bought him from usually sells males neutered.

Mine was still a friendly sweetheart. He DID apparently have some kind of run-in with the young wether once. I didn't see it, but he made a few half-hearted attempts to chase the wether, who ran behind his mom (my herd queen). I could tell the llama was mad at him. Nobody pushed it beyond that and by a few hours later it was all blown over.

I've been around perhaps a dozen herdsire (edited for spelling and actually I remember another ranch I checked out with perhaps another dozen sites of their own) llamas. They are generally kept with a neutered male but I've never seen one act aggressively to humans or other animals, with the exception of a sire who was penned alone with two young intact males in the next pen. He tried to fight them over the fence but again he didn't look TOO serious.

But I've never seen a setup like you mention. Maybe the dynamics of it? I prefer neutered males, personality wise. The females can be sweet (I've seen a couple of VERY sweet ones) but they can also be snippy.

OH I just thought of something! I wonder if she coddled and petted the male a lot when he was young? They can develop a very sad situation --I think it's called BMS for Berserk Male Syndrome -- where they become terribly aggressive to people when their hormones kick in and usually have to be destroyed. I've been warned not to tame the little males while they are under six months or so for that reason. I have also heard of young females developing abnormal personalities (though not as severe and rarer) from being overly coddled. Just a thought.

 

[Shiloh Acres]

Going to the city today.

I want to have a last day of fun before I go back to work I guess, but more importantly my bank is "over there". Too funny, I originally chose Bank of America thinking it would be accessible wherever I moved. I've since learned I can't even order checks at the "local" bank cuz I opened the account in another state AND there isn't one within almost an hour's drive. Time to choose a local bank I guess.

But there's a cute little antique shop there that has what looks like dozens of personal spaces set up. Should be fun to look at, though I don't usually buy anything (unless maybe I was to find a good meat grinder for really REALLY cheap!). You never know.

I'm always nervous leaving the animals but of course they are secured and i should be back before dark. It's like leaving kids with a babysitter for the first time -- every time LOL!

 

[ksalvagno]

Hormones can do a lot of things to an animal. Especially a male. I had a male alpaca that was a huge baby and had to be with his friend at every moment. Then he turned 3 years old (when the hormones seem to really kick in for alpacas) and got very aggressive with other alpacas. I had to put him in a stall and field by himself. He was never aggressive to me but it was a pain to use that much space for one animal.

Loving on a llama/alpaca is not a good thing. They think you are another llama and treat you as such. Add in hormones and it is just a disaster.

There is no reason why you can't work with a llama/alpaca under 6 months old. You just need to do it respectfully and not baby them or love on them. There is also this fear of male bottle babies. I have bottle fed plenty of males and they have not turned bad because I was only known as the milk source. I didn't talk to them or pet them or hug them. I gave them their bottle and then walked away. They have to find companionship and comfort from other alpacas. It really comes down to how you handle them. If you respect and treat your alpacas and llamas like livestock and not pets, you should do fine.

 

[Shiloh Acres]

Thanks for that extra info, Karen.

I'd heard not to bottlefeed males (and I wouldn't anyway unless it HAD to be done to save them -- females either!) but it is nice to hear that it's possible to do so safely, and how. I'd have to keep my guard up ... I think crias are just about the most adorable animal on earth and it must be awfully tempting to treat them like pets.

I guess in general I've gotten used enough to the idea. The goats ACT like pets and beg for scratches and pats, but I try to always remember that the dog and cats are my pets. Everything else is a source of commodity. Being that you lose livestock sometimes, and sometimes have to make decisions to sell or whatever for the good of the herd, I can't afford to treat them like pets. I can't afford a huge private petting zoo.

Thanks again so much for that info!

Edited to correct spell checker changes, lol. Apparently it never heard of a "cria"

 

[ksalvagno]

It is hard not to hug and love on those cute little crias. But I have seen alpacas and llamas that were loved on as crias and then became threats to humans. It is just too sad. Some of those males were so neglected because people can't get near them so they were thrown in a big pasture and never given any care. The worst part is, is that it was the human's fault that the animals turned out the way they did.

I have trained alpacas under six months so they could be taken to shows. No problems with aggression. But I strictly worked on halter training and picking feet up and stuff like that. Once again, no hugging or loving on. I think the most important thing is to respect their space and make sure they respect your space.

I really like the CameliDynamics training by Marty McGee Bennett. Also Gentle Spirit Training by Cathy Spalding is another good one. It is a way to interact with your llama/alpaca without them turning into problems.

 

[Denim Deb]

Good info, Karen. I wonder if that was part of the problem my friend had. All of her other llamas she got as adults. And I know she loved on the baby after he was born. He was real sweet when he was young, but that all changed.

He attacked 3 people that I know of, me included. One person he knocked to the ground. He attacked my friend when she was on a tractor. She had to climb on top of the tractor so he couldn't reach her! We were able to catch him, and move him into a field where she didn't need to worry about him attacking anyone. Then she decided to move him into another field. And, he attacked her zebu! The zebu wasn't bothered at all, but did flip the llama into the air. We think that may have been what did him in. And while it was a shame in some ways, in the long run, it was probably better. I'd hate to think of what could have happened if her little granddaughter had gotten into the field w/him.

 

[Shiloh Acres]

Sorry to hear more of the llama's sad story. I guess it makes a good warning. I'd heard not to baby them ... My little guy would follow me around but he did not LIKE being touched. Llamas seem very intuitive about their idea of "space". You can make them go where you want just by moving yourself. I need to learn this better but it works very well with my female. You get used to it and it almost feels like the llama is reading your mind.

Well, I got my "city trip" in. I always feel so out of place, LOL. And it's barely big enough to BE a city.

There were tons of cool stuff to look at in the antique shoo. It was 2-3x as big as it looked from outside! Even with booths marked 30, 40, 50, and 80% off, I didn't buy anything. I saw a few things I liked but didn't need. Fireplace bellows at $9-14, but my fireplace here doesn't seem to need one like the firebox at the cabin did. Meat grinders, all $20 and up (cabinet-mounted crank ones) in various conditions, but I don't know enough about them to invest that. I was tempted by a mini butter churn for $6, but I'm thinking the same work (almost) is probably involved, so I didn't buy it. It was cute though, and functional.

Got more ideas than anything. That's why I go. Saw a really cute lamp that used an old milk jug. A magazine holder that was made of rowel slats but had been finished with rag-rug strips woven through the slats. I don't need a magazine holder, but its a cute way to finish anything with slats.

I went "out to lunch". A treat and a trial, LOL. A Chinese buffet that had a sign "98% MSG-free". But I questioned myself -- that COULD mean the food was up to 2% MSG?!?! I hoped it meant 98% had no MSG. It gives me headaches. I haven't been to a Chinese buffet in years, I think. I had lemon chicken and sesame chicken that were pretty good. I tried the tempura (which I usually eat very little of) but it was really good. I even had some "imitation crab" claws, which were probably scallops. VERY little. I haven't had seafood in years, and especially avoided even ocean fish since BP. She asked what I wanted to drink, and they had no regular tea so I finally said "just a cola". I guess that's not very specific. I THINK she brought me a Dr.Pepper. I haven't had one in 30 years (yes I was very young LOL!).

I did enjoy the treat of eating out. Ten minutes later I had a headache though, and my stomach complained too. Guess it's good I haven't eaten like that in a few years, LOL.

The best part was grocery-store scores. Got a big bag of Texas oranges, a few pounds of nice bacon, 12 pounds of sugar, and a frozen goose -- all for great prices (the only way I shop!). I just never know what I'm going to get, if anything, when it's a far-away grocery store. The Mexican market listed lard on sale, and I thought it might be REAL lard ($1.25 a pound doesn't sound that cheap though?) but I never found it.

Now I gotta figure out what to do with the goose. I've never actually cooked one, and I'm planning to raise this year's goslings for meat, so .... at 75or 80% off it seemed like a worthwhile experiment. I gotta see if what I have can make a good go-with too. I'm thinking a fruit/nut based stuffing, but I normally do a very simple cornbread stuffing with poultry-seasoning type flavors for turkey.

I posted the question under kitchen stuff.

 

[Shiloh Acres]

Goose is cooked. Took MUCH longer than expected. Maybe I overcooked it ... but I don't really think so. It was bleeding half an hour before I finally took it out.

It WAS delicious. The breast is still my favorite, more like beef.

It wasn't as difficult to cook as some of the horror stories I read before I asked y'all. I had read it would splatter grease all over the kitchen, smoke up the oven, all kinds of silly stuff. No more mess than cooking any other bird. And I have over a quart of the liquid I pulled off while cooking. I *think* it's fat, but it's some very clean-looking fat. Beautiful in fact. It looks almost like water in the first quart jar. When that one filled up, and it was almost done, I got a smaller jar and filled that one. It had a tiny bit of browned liquid. I'm going to let it set out overnight and see what it looks like tomorrow.

Was good with the stuffing. I actually didn't cook anything else, since I had mashed potatoes and gravy left over. And ended up not eating them, maybe because it's late, but the goose and stuffing were enough. I even have a pumpkin pie in there I cooked too, but that's going to get to chill till tomorrow at least. Going to bed ... it's 1am here and I have to get up early, LOL.

I guess I'm going to have to buy a large covered roaster before my geese grow out. The foil worked, but I think it would have cooked faster and much better with a roaster. Especially since I kept pricking the skin and drawing out the fat. I think I lost a lot of oven heat in that.

Night all.

 

[Wifezilla]

great job!

 

[ohiofarmgirl]

GREAT work! and i'm so jealous of the goose fat!!!

*looks out the window at OD, wondering......*

use them to make roast taters... oh the heavenly aroma!!!

and yeah - all those horror stories are kind of a bunch of hype. i think those rumors were started in the '70's and the goose-farmers just didnt have a good enough marketing team to turn it around.

yay for you!
ps did you think to take pix?