SKR8PN.... two small butts........

[Dunkopf]

I think most apprentice programs are union based. Or I should say were union based. Of course maybe the ones being talked about were the ones from the 1700's where you slaved for someone and in exchange they taught you their trade. Then after 6-8 years you could go somewhere else and hang out your shingle.

Unions are going away so apprenticeships have followed.

College is pretty much a natural extension of HS now. Most kids have no clue what they want to be when they grow up. So it's only natural that they say what was stated above. It's too bad you can't graduate HS then work at a crap job for a few years. Then go back to school full time after you are more mature.

Unfortunately when you try that route things like kids and real life get in the way. The sad fact is that a lot of places require degrees for any kind of job. When you ask them why they say that it shows you can make a commitment and responsibility and all that stuff. So you get a bunch of kids graduating with worthless degrees.

I don't have a degree above HS. I make good money though and I'm not self employed. I say that because it seems like the only people able to make a decent wage are either in the 2% of self employed people that make it. Or they have a degree and know how to put it to good use.

The stats show that people with college degrees earn about 40% more than people without over the course of their life. Obviously it doesn't always apply. Like so many things in life when someone doesn't have something they try to minimalize those that do.

 

[Farmfresh]

Bring back the 1700's!

 

[modern_pioneer]

I think most apprentice programs are union based. Or I should say were union based. Of course maybe the ones being talked about were the ones from the 1700's where you slaved for someone and in exchange they taught you their trade. Then after 6-8 years you could go somewhere else and hang out your shingle.

One of my companies, http://themetalpeddler.com/ I started after spending 11 years working under James Chamberlain in brass. It was a Master Craftsman trade, but never union based that I am aware of. The second company I own http://www.artisanmetalshop.com/ I started because I wanted to try my hand at making neat stuff from a machine.

Both businesses have done just fine and I am booked to the end of March this year... I have not laid anybody off, I did reduce one position, but she had a baby and is fine working from home. So I believe if you work hard, be honest, and most of all remember the what your parents taught you.

WOW!! 2% only make it!!! WOW!!!!

 

[lwheelr]

The apprenticeships I am talking about have nothing to do with Unions. Go talk to the US Job Service about starting an apprenticeship program and see what they have to say about how you have to do it.

And the early middle ages apprenticeships weren't about exploitation or slaving either. Sure, there were bad masters, but there were also good ones. Those youth who worked hard in apprenticeships would have had to work hard at home or at a job for which their parents collected the salary if they were not in an apprenticeship, and the apprentices were considered the fortunate ones because their families COULD spare them without a wage coming in from them.

Just because novelists have dramatized bad situations doesn't mean that every situation was a bad one, because they weren't. People weren't any more cruel or stupid then than they are now. They were a standard for a long time because they worked. In fact, the majority of bad ones are in historical fiction - cruelty has a greater sense of drama than kindness. Many of the early American historical figures had experiences with good apprenticeships. They considered that working hard was the price of learning the trade.

My sister attempted to place her boy with a plumber to learn practical skills, because he had a learning disorder - excelled with his hands though. He was 16 at the time. No one would allow it. Unpaid people on site? OSHA won't allow it. A 16 year old in a construction setting? Insurance screams about it. Child labor laws forbid it because he was still in school. She wanted her boy to be able to learn a practical skill, at the hands of a professional who was careful and thoughtful (and willing to do it, too), but the law won't allow it.

So apprenticeships didn't die because unions are losing ground. They died because the government killed them, and unions hastened them to their death by insisting on regulation for them - after all, every new apprentice posed a threat to a union member.

Everything that made them work, is now illegal.

 

[Dunkopf]

I think most apprentice programs are union based. Or I should say were union based. Of course maybe the ones being talked about were the ones from the 1700's where you slaved for someone and in exchange they taught you their trade. Then after 6-8 years you could go somewhere else and hang out your shingle.

One of my companies, http://themetalpeddler.com/ I started after spending 11 years working under James Chamberlain in brass. It was a Master Craftsman trade, but never union based that I am aware of. The second company I own http://www.artisanmetalshop.com/ I started because I wanted to try my hand at making neat stuff from a machine.

Both businesses have done just fine and I am booked to the end of March this year... I have not laid anybody off, I did reduce one position, but she had a baby and is fine working from home. So I believe if you work hard, be honest, and most of all remember the what your parents taught you.

WOW!! 2% only make it!!! WOW!!!!

2% of small businesses make it through the 1st year. If you made it you did good and you beat the odds. It takes more than hard work. It takes proper management and hard work and not spending money you don't have or don't have a very good plan for paying back.

!!!!!!CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!

 

[Dunkopf]

The apprenticeships I am talking about have nothing to do with Unions. Go talk to the US Job Service about starting an apprenticeship program and see what they have to say about how you have to do it.

And the early middle ages apprenticeships weren't about exploitation or slaving either. Sure, there were bad masters, but there were also good ones. Those youth who worked hard in apprenticeships would have had to work hard at home or at a job for which their parents collected the salary if they were not in an apprenticeship, and the apprentices were considered the fortunate ones because their families COULD spare them without a wage coming in from them.

Just because novelists have dramatized bad situations doesn't mean that every situation was a bad one, because they weren't. People weren't any more cruel or stupid then than they are now. They were a standard for a long time because they worked. In fact, the majority of bad ones are in historical fiction - cruelty has a greater sense of drama than kindness. Many of the early American historical figures had experiences with good apprenticeships. They considered that working hard was the price of learning the trade.

My sister attempted to place her boy with a plumber to learn practical skills, because he had a learning disorder - excelled with his hands though. He was 16 at the time. No one would allow it. Unpaid people on site? OSHA won't allow it. A 16 year old in a construction setting? Insurance screams about it. Child labor laws forbid it because he was still in school. She wanted her boy to be able to learn a practical skill, at the hands of a professional who was careful and thoughtful (and willing to do it, too), but the law won't allow it.

So apprenticeships didn't die because unions are losing ground. They died because the government killed them, and unions hastened them to their death by insisting on regulation for them - after all, every new apprentice posed a threat to a union member.

Everything that made them work, is now illegal.

Sorry I'm not that old. Wasn't around back then. Just going from history classes, but I went to public school. So who knows.

Bad government. They are truly the bane of mankind.

 

[lwheelr]

According to the SBA, the failure rate in the first 5 years for new businesses is right about 50%, and has been for decades.

Considering that the majority of new businesses are small businesses (the overwhelming majority), it could not possibly be 2% in the first year, unless you are getting your statistics somewhere else, or considering only a small portion of those businesses.

Now... the SBA does not count:

Affiliate Marketers and the odd Ebay seller who decides to try to make a little on the side that they don't report, and that they rarely put any effort into. They are not considered businesses - if they had considered themselves to be businesses, then perhaps they'd have a better success rate than the dismal LESS than 1% that they have. Success in this instance means, "made ANY profit at all".

Distributorships, MLM, Consultants, Direct Sales and the whole Network Marketing people as startups. THEIR success rate is about 1-2% (depending on the scam level and the ability the program actually offers the individual to successfully sell - many tie the distributor's hands). Success in this instance means "made any profit and stuck with it for more than one year".

They also do not count people who never file a business license or a DBA with a state government (BTW, this actually is not required in many locations). THEIR success rate is about 4%, based on data we collected as small business startup consultants.

They DO count franchises, which have a success rate of about 45%, slightly negatively affecting the overall failure rate of business startups.

The number is also misleading. This year, we will unincorporate, and re-incorporate in another state - we have done business as a corporation here for 4 years. Our EIN will be abandoned, and we will be issued a new one. Since our business did not last 5 years in its current state (though it did not fail - we are selling it and revising it somewhere else), they will count this as a business failure, because our business entity ceased existing.

That is all they measure. Which businesses disappear. They do not look at IRS documents, they only look at public corporate, LLC, Sole Proprietorship, and DBA filings for who exists, and who does not. If your business entity exists for more than 5 years, they consider you succeeded. If it ceases to exist, it failed - even if you died, you sold it for a whopping profit, moved from one state to another, or changed the name.

So you have to take it all with a grain of salt.

 

[Dunkopf]

I stand corrected. I was going by what we were told when we started a business back in 93. We lasted 3 years. I thought we had beat the odds before we failed.

Oh well.

 

[lwheelr]

Statistics are highly overrated, and I think the SBA figures demonstrate that very well. You can make the numbers look like anything you want if you just leave out half of them.

 

[SKR8PN]

Skiing, skiing and MORE SKIING!!! Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and we are going to go again this evening. Saturday was SnowTrails 50th anniversary party.

Here is a link to pictures of the big "50" they made out of snow!
http://snowtrails.org/photo/Snow-Trails-50th-Celebration

They used it as an outside bar yesterday, and had the ice sculpture set as a back bar display. It was pretty cool(no pun intended) to be able to ski right up to the bar!!