So pitch your theory!

On Our own

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Solar is out of reach for us. But, we live near the DElaware border and over there the state will cover 50% of the cost. There is solar ALL over the place there. The vet is fully solar powered, The Lutheran church is solar (don't know what %) Many, many houses have solar panels.

I am very jealous. We designed our house to utilize solar and then the builder went bankrupt so we could not afford to install the panels.

The government made cars attractive in the 50s by creating the interstate system. They made flying affordable by building airports. They have and still do support railroads.... (Which I strongly believe they should support even more!) If they had put their money behind solar back when Carter started to try to build public support for it, the technology would be fully utilized by now.

All it needed then and needs now is support....... There were and are powerful forces holding it back.
 

Wifezilla

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There are groups that have issues with any way to produce large amounts of energy. These groups litigate attempts to diversify our energy sources.
I just saw a news story yesterday about an environmental group trying to stop a solar energy plant in the desert because it might disrupt the environment of some lizards. :p
 

Tallman

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A couple of weeks ago I attended a Wind Symposium at Oklahoma State University in Oklahoma City. Here are a few things that pertain to this discussion.

The engineers of the wind generators expect the unit to last about 20 years.

A wind farm should break even in 7 to 10 years.

Some surrounding landowners who do not share in the production royalties do not want a wind farm in their area. It's like VT said, they do not want to see them on the landscape. The generators that are being install now are 300+ feet tall.

After a wind farm is developed, then a transportation line needs to be built to carry the power from the wind farm to a utility company who will buy the electricity. When electricity first came to rural America, the land owners were all for it because it was going to bring energy to them for their homes and farms; however, with the wind farms, the energy is flowing from rural America to the cities, and in order to grant right of way for a transportation line some landowners want an annual payment for the power line that will cross their property. These landowners make the claim that the company that produces the energy is going to make money on this power line as long as the energy flows through it so they want a percentage for as long as it is being used. As a rule of thumb, the company buying the right of way pays the landowner the price of the land per acre for the amount of right of way that they want. Here is an example. If the company was going to cross a piece of property that is one half of a mile in length, and the right of way was going to be 50 feet wide, that means that the right of way would take up 3.03 acres. If the land on the average in that area is selling for $2,000 per acre, then the company would pay the land owner a one time settlement of $6,060. The landowner can still use the land with some restrictions; however, the landowner now has poles to contend with while he or she farms. Some landowners feel that the energy passing through these power lines causes a dangerous magnetic field. This list could go on and on.

Everything has it's draw backs. As far as I am concerned, I would be more likely to grant right of way to a buried pipeline than an overhead power line. The pipeline is out of site and out of the way.
 

me&thegals

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VT-Chicklit said:
I think it would be great if the power companies started to use more types of alternate energy. It is unfortunate that there are many groups that espouse conservation and a green lifestyle but are making it more difficult for the energy businesses to use these greener renewable alternatives.

In Vermont, the wind is very reliable and some companies have tried to put up wind turbines. They have been thwarted at every turn by people who don't want them on the ridge lines, which is where the best wind is. They also don't want them in the Champlain Valley, which is where some of the best wind is. I bet these people will not be first in line to give up their electricity or go cold in the winter inorder to not pollute and keep everything pristine.

These are the same people that have problems with our old and decrepit nuc plant. I have problems with the plant as well, and feel that we need to get an alternative source of electricity inorder to be able to decomission it. I would love for there to be wind mills that produced the energy Vermont needs. They could plant one in my back yard!

This is where all of this alternate energy talk becomes pie-in-the-sky. There are groups that have issues with any way to produce large amounts of energy. These groups litigate attempts to diversify our energy sources. If Vermont, a state with a very small population, cant poduce enough energy from alternate sources to supply its citizens, I cant see it happening elsewhere in the US. They have issues with hydro (fish spawning), wood chip burning (pollution), wind mills (eyesore), new nuc (too dangerous) and so on. I feel like I am being held hostage by these people.

The energy that is used in my county is produced in Canada! The contracts with that Canadian firm are comming due and I am sure the new contracts that the co-op will negotiate will cost us more. I currently pay 14.7 cents a k/hr. It is crazy to purchase from another country what you can produce yourself. Can you say OIL! We in the islands have alot of wind and wind mills would make sense! There is a hue and cry when wind mills are mentioned in the Champlain Valley. I think that it is a bit hypocritical to believe that it is alright for Canadian fish to have difficulty spawning, Canadian air be polluted, Canadian views be "spoiled" and so on to produce the energy that we are not being allowed to produce here for those reasons!

The reality is we need electricity to be a productive first world country and producing electricity, like producing anything else, changes the enviornment. Any technology we have to prouce electricity is not perfect and we cannot wait for it to be perfect. It is unfortunate that there are those who are making this transition almost impossible and more costley with each law suit. I don't want a wind mill on every ridge line but it would be fine with me if some of the ridge lines had them and some were placed in our valley to produce the electricity we need. This would be safer that an aging nuc plant, burning wood chips, coal etc and more economical that the Canadian electricity and it is renewable.
That is all so true!!! People have to understand it is going to come from SOMEwhere. So, let's find places that have the least impact on animals and plant life. For example, why not some desolate desert place for massive solar fields? And, once you find that place, really concentrate it. I really don't want to see wind turbines every place I look, but what if you found an excellently windy spot and put up 1000s of the things?
 

me&thegals

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On Our own said:
Solar is out of reach for us. But, we live near the DElaware border and over there the state will cover 50% of the cost. There is solar ALL over the place there. The vet is fully solar powered, The Lutheran church is solar (don't know what %) Many, many houses have solar panels.

I am very jealous. We designed our house to utilize solar and then the builder went bankrupt so we could not afford to install the panels.

The government made cars attractive in the 50s by creating the interstate system. They made flying affordable by building airports. They have and still do support railroads.... (Which I strongly believe they should support even more!) If they had put their money behind solar back when Carter started to try to build public support for it, the technology would be fully utilized by now.

All it needed then and needs now is support....... There were and are powerful forces holding it back.
Exactly. Just follow the money trail. If gov't can create incentives for alternative energy sources, there is the brainpower and creative energy in America to figure out ways to do it well. But, our current system is heavily subsidized and "lobbyized" by oil, coal and others.
 
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As usual the will of the few out weight through money the will of the many. There are many areas on the great plains that are virtual wastelands and have high wind. The grass is so sparse they can't raise more than one cow per 10 acres. Seems like they could concentrate some wind farms in those areas. As far as solar panels, what about all the useless desert in Utah and Nevada and parts of Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado. Seems like there needs to be some priorities.

Yes, establishing the power grid is going to be costly. It will pay off in the long run. Hopefully the current administration will have time to get it done.
 

me&thegals

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I worry that we're going to start feeling like we're doing enough by changing over to CFLs and biking once in a while to work. I worry that the slowness of politics and "necessary" evils related to reelection cycles will not allow us to make the massive energy grid and transportation changes that I think are necessary.

I think it will be interesting to see what China does. Apparently, in a few things they are ahead of us on this. If gov't can't manage to encourage enough change, may plain old competitive markets will do the trick :)

It's quite sad, but there are some cutting edge companies here in America, but all their sales are to Europe and China since their own country is not progressive enough on this yet to use their solar products. Guess where this stuff is produced?

Let's get manufacturing back in America, but let's do it with a new, cutting-edge technology that a lot of the world is going to need!
 

DrakeMaiden

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Well, I, for the life of me, do not understand why they are disabling the good old hydropower dams in my area (Pacific Northwest). Yes, the dams have mucked up salmon spawning, but I'm not sure that if the dams were disassembled that the salmon would return. I honestly don't know if there is proof that they will return, maybe there is. I consider myself an environmentalist. I just happen to believe that energy from a relatively clean natural resource is a darn good idea and that while the salmon are important, I would think we should focus on improving the existing best runs rather than try to re-introduce salmon to areas that we have already messed up.

In my area there are some people working on using the ocean currents and waves as a source of energy. Last I heard this sort of work was promising. I believe I heard that they have been asked to put some of these power generating devices far enough out to sea that they are not visible from shore. In any case, I think it is a cool resource to tap, so I hope it proves to be a reliable and cost effective source of energy.
 

me&thegals

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I agree. Use what is already there and try to protect the sensitive areas in nature. It's amazing what brains come up with once you get out of the mindset of coal and oil.

By the way, I was just thinking about how self-sufficient this whole concept of renewable energy is! Only on more of a national and world-wide scale.

ETA: I also love the current administration's plan to give credits for people to retrofit homes and buildings. A TON of energy is lost unnecessarily in these areas, way more than all the vehicles on all the roads. (see Hot, Flat and Crowded)
 

Wifezilla

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As far as solar panels, what about all the useless desert in Utah and Nevada and parts of Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado. Seems like there needs to be some priorities.
I agree with you on this. But these are the very places people are screaming about because some jumping mouse might have to move around the power pole or the solar panel would shade their den hole.

Anyone who objects to solar and wind panels in Nevada, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico has NEVER DRIVEN THROUGH, spent time in or hiked through Nevada, Colorado, Arizona or New Mexico.
 
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