The wealth gap & other ills.... Warning: long and could make you sick

[me&thegals]

I don't think people are generalizing here too much, FC. The rich ones being complained about are those NOT giving to charity, complaining over their problems and apparently being mean.

I have wealthy and poor relatives. Most don't talk about whether they give to charity or not. But those who do and those who don't seem to be fairly evenly distributed (as far as I can tell) among rich and poor. I think giving is an attitude based very little on actual income.

Bill Gates!!! My hero! I agree. One reason (the only one?) I wouldn't mind being filthy rich would be to give on a genormous scale like Gates and Buffett. How cool that they have pooled their resources now!

 

[reinbeau]

I have no envy of the rich, I have no desire to force the spread of their wealth. The idea that they should give more is not something that should happen in a free society.

 

[FarmerChick]

You're one of the rare ones Reinbeau----lol

Most people DO SPEND other people's money for them....they feel it is their right. One right I would never agree with---to each his own income!

 

[Big Daddy]

No they just need to roll back the Bush tax cuts as promised. That will help out a lot. They also need to tax investment income at the same rate as earnings income. Most people don't realize that tax on investments is around 10 or 11%. A lot of rich people have a primary job of collecting interest. So they actually pay quite a bit less than the avg Joe.

 

[On Our own]

Instead of seeing the very wealthy give to charity - and I do agree that many give millions to charities that badly need their money - I would rather see a few more give decent wages to those who help them make their wealth.

John D. Rockefeller said that he believed that making money was god's gift to him and that since the gift was given to him (I am paraphrasing here I will find the exact quote if you want it) then god meant for him to decide how to help his fellow man according to his own conscience.

Yet, in 2002 George W. Bush said that what this country really needed was more ethical businessmen!

Too many business students were taught that even illegal behavior was the "right" thing to do as their only obligation was to maximize profit and that they had NO OTHER obligation whatsoever.

Google the words Milton Friedman and ethics and you'll see what I mean. Recognize that for 30 years this is the primary idea that has been taught in most MBA programs in this country.

 

[enjoy the ride]

Rich, poor - everyone likes to spend other people's money.
There are mean (as in miser) in rich people and poor people.
There are generous poor people and rich people- although you can't bee too generous as a rich person as you then are no longer rich.
These are all various attributes of people.

What I really object to is the level of uncritical greed that I see as a characteristic of the last decade or so.
Used to be the world was full of admonishments from teachers, clergy, literature, etc about moral behavior, including defining greed and theft as evil. So you could be a bad person- lots were but there was, in the previous 100 years or so, at least some tide pushing against it.
Not neccessarily "charity" but honorable behavior. When was the last time you actually heard that word used by real people- Honorable? To do the honorable thing was to 'fess up to greed or dishonest behavior, to avoid cruelty to others, not to screw the last penny out of those who were not able to defend themselves. Kindness in human behavior was a goal, to be sought after no matter how many time failed.
Recently, a story of generousity is so rare, people have to read about it in the news.
The world needs those lectures on decent behavior, no matter how often the goal is failed or people come to the conclusion that everyone is a bag of greed and so they should be too.

 

[me&thegals]

Too many business students were taught that even illegal behavior was the "right" thing to do as their only obligation was to maximize profit and that they had NO OTHER obligation whatsoever.

I know very little about business, so bear with me. It seems I've read that publicly held companies (with stock) HAVE to show profits, and this need for constant growth (although wrong) leads to the situation we have now.

MEN had a great article on Patagonia this issue. The owner does not consider himself a businessman. In fact, his first priority (he says) is in doing no harm to the environment whatsoever. He claims to not even know his profits for the past year. He says that by doing the right thing first, the profits come anyway afterwards. AND he says that as a privately held company, he has no pressure whatsoever to show constant growth, but Patagonia has this growth anyway, in spite of the down economy.

Very interesting to me.

And I do agree that decent wages and benefits are preferable to charity.

However, I believe much of Gates' charity goes overseas where it is even more desperately need for things like malaria netting, vaccinations and other interventions.

 

[me&thegals]

Recently, a story of generousity is so rare, people have to read about it in the news. The world needs those lectures on decent behavior, no matter how often the goal is failed or people come to the conclusion that everyone is a bag of greed and so they should be too.

I'm not sure whether generosity is on the decline or rise. I would agree that business ethics and "atmosphere" have dramatically changed. But, there are still good apples out there. Pop on over to the "good deed" thread for a refreshing, uplifting vantage point

As for business, I'm glad to see some out there really put first things first. At the risk of being annoying, Google the MEN article on Patagonia, a company that allows its employees to leave work when the snow is great for skiing or the weather perfect for fishing. Imagine!

 

[FarmerChick]

Instead of seeing the very wealthy give to charity - and I do agree that many give millions to charities that badly need their money - I would rather see a few more give decent wages to those who help them make their wealth.

John D. Rockefeller said that he believed that making money was god's gift to him and that since the gift was given to him (I am paraphrasing here I will find the exact quote if you want it) then god meant for him to decide how to help his fellow man according to his own conscience.

Yet, in 2002 George W. Bush said that what this country really needed was more ethical businessmen!

Too many business students were taught that even illegal behavior was the "right" thing to do as their only obligation was to maximize profit and that they had NO OTHER obligation whatsoever.

Google the words Milton Friedman and ethics and you'll see what I mean. Recognize that for 30 years this is the primary idea that has been taught in most MBA programs in this country.

Yup--you are spending others monies

 

[FarmerChick]

Rich, poor - everyone likes to spend other people's money.
There are mean (as in miser) in rich people and poor people.
There are generous poor people and rich people- although you can't bee too generous as a rich person as you then are no longer rich.
These are all various attributes of people.

What I really object to is the level of uncritical greed that I see as a characteristic of the last decade or so.
Used to be the world was full of admonishments from teachers, clergy, literature, etc about moral behavior, including defining greed and theft as evil. So you could be a bad person- lots were but there was, in the previous 100 years or so, at least some tide pushing against it.
Not neccessarily "charity" but honorable behavior. When was the last time you actually heard that word used by real people- Honorable? To do the honorable thing was to 'fess up to greed or dishonest behavior, to avoid cruelty to others, not to screw the last penny out of those who were not able to defend themselves. Kindness in human behavior was a goal, to be sought after no matter how many time failed.
Recently, a story of generousity is so rare, people have to read about it in the news.
The world needs those lectures on decent behavior, no matter how often the goal is failed or people come to the conclusion that everyone is a bag of greed and so they should be too.

do not think for one moment unethical behavior is new.
it is just "new to us" now in our time

it happened constantly in the past.