Trespassing?

[tinkarooni]

Do you own the mineral rights? That can make a huge difference.
When I brought my little farmette and asked the lawyer about the mineral rights he thought I was nuts. I pointed out that there was coal down there for sure since it came up with the well boring and that there was a old closed copper,silver,gold mine within a 1/4 mile of my place. He wanted extra to do the research until I pointed out that he advertised a title search for $100 and told him that a title included mineral rights ( It is nice to know a little law )
Turns out the mineral rights were owned by a Coal Company that went out of business in 1941 now they realize there is gas in that formation ( the same gas that exploded in the coal mine and put them out of business along with 43 miners and 55 mules ) But I don't own the mineral rights.

We do own our mineral rights. That doesn't make a bit of difference though, sure they have to pay us for the gas they "say" they have taken but it doesn't keep them from coming on our property. Unfortunately the gas company employees are very arrogant and think they can go anywhere and do anything. If I can figure put how to post a photo I will show you what they did to my neighbors property, they were injecting some type of fluid under the ground to bore underneath the road with permission on someone else's land, to put yet another gas pipeline in and the "fluid" inadvertently seeped up into her yard in two different places on either side of a creek. What a scary mess.

 

[savingdogs]

We bought our property three years ago but for two years now we have had the threat of having the Bonneville Power Administration come in and build a big new power line. They sent thousands of people letters in my county, explaining how they would need to (essentially) trespass to check out the best new route for the power lines, which might include us needing to remove our livestock from the area and/or expect that trees could be REMOVED that were up to a certain width in diameter (fairly big trees)!

If our route is "chosen" we would of course be duly compensated and moved, but it does make planning for the future a bit difficult. We have been waiting and waiting to hear and won't know until 2012.

In the meantime, everyone around here has posted "NO TRESPASSING" signs, and many of them say, "Especially BPA" and there is even a group we belong to called BPA GO AWAY.

But they still have the right to come onto our property if they so choose. Legally they just have to tell us "when".

Yes, our group is fighting this. This is what they did with the "stimulus" money in our area. This powerline is supposed to help California and Canada share electricity and is "needed" or else Portland will have brown-outs. Of course I don't live in Portland, Canada or California.

In any event, it seems that we have learned that the government has the right to take your property whenever they choose if they wish it badly enough.

 

[Buster]

In any event, it seems that we have learned that the government has the right to take your property whenever they choose if they wish it badly enough.

Been that way for a while. I have a petition signed by my gr gr grandfather in 1857 protesting a railroad that was going to cut his land directly in half. Seeings there are now railroad tracks there his petition must not have done much good.

 

[THEFAN]

In any event, it seems that we have learned that the government has the right to take your property whenever they choose if they wish it badly enough.

Been that way for a while. I have a petition signed by my gr gr grandfather in 1857 protesting a railroad that was going to cut his land directly in half. Seeings there are now railroad tracks there his petition must not have done much good.

Nice to see 2 more people waking up from the matrix.

 

[pinkfox]

this is one of my concerns too...

nothing as big as that but when we bought our place we could keep chickens (no roos, but hens were ok) it took us a few years, fnally got our hens and 6 months later they changed the rule to no chickens on anything smaller than 5 acres...

we didnt know about it untill a neighbor mentioned that we needed to be carefull who we offered eggs to as theyd changed the law) so right now we have 10 Ninja chickens...

its like we were allowed then someone came along and complained and suddenly they change the rules, its our land, we pay for it and pay taxes on it and none of the neghbors complain (they all love "the girls") but some guy acorss town didnt like the fact that there might be chickens in his neighbors yard...
we didnt even get a chance or notice to fight it or even appeal either...

so now...the only people who know, are the people we trust.

its one of the reasons i want to live far enough off the beaten path and away from anywhere of interest that nooens going to even think of me...
the house i want to buy is in Lutts...in wayne county tn...even people who live in wayne county dont seem to have ever heard of lutts LOL, it has a post office, a small country store and a church...LOL!

my kind of town!

 

[~gd]

I now have 4 LGDs on my entirely fenced in property. The only thing I worry about trespassers now is whether they will be seriously injured.

If you don't want your dogs shot You better keep them where you can control them. Thats how Ruby Ridge got started the government agents shot a dog the was only barking at them.

 

[pinkfox]

and remember in alot of places if someon gets bitten or injured on your property YOU are responsible...
in the case of dog bites they can seize the dog and have it put to sleep (or at least lable it agressve so on a second strike they could be euthanized) plus the rapid quick fire effect a dog has on a home insurance policy...even when its never harmed a fly...add a bite incident and your premiums skyrocket...

personally i dont agree with this...and i hope there are still places in this country where people dont behave this way (entering somoene elses property then suing you if they get injured) but around here at least...
and puttng "beward of the dog" just serves to prove you "knew the dog is agresive..." its ridiculous.

 

[FarmerChick]

govt taking/buying property has to happen. it sucks sure for the person it is happening too, but sometimes it does help that person also.

but without their right to step in to do big projects like power lines or gas lines or roads, the country would be no where, cause people could stop and control all progress....which might good in some situatinons, very bad in others.

there is never a perfect solution for any big govt projects. some will be happy they are happening, others will not benefit from it.

 

[savingdogs]

govt taking/buying property has to happen. it sucks sure for the person it is happening too, but sometimes it does help that person also.

but without their right to step in to do big projects like power lines or gas lines or roads, the country would be no where, cause people could stop and control all progress....which might good in some situatinons, very bad in others.

there is never a perfect solution for any big govt projects. some will be happy they are happening, others will not benefit from it.

I felt this way, too, until it happened to us and see how they are mishandling it. They have lowered our property value even more than it would have been already, and it happened for everyone who recieved the letter even thought they cannot possibly use all the possible routes, thousands of homes got "the letter". They already have extensive power lines and alternate routes, they do not have to hold all our houses in limbo for three years while they decide. After we recieved our letters, property values here dropped an additional 30 percent approx and two people on our road walked away from their mortgages after that as their homes were for sale. The one across the road from us went from being for sale for 165,000 to selling for 35,000 within six months of our "letters". We realize property values dropped all over, but we bought when things were down and this made it much worse, we are now upside down on our loan like so many other people, but we bought when things were LOW. Meanwhile, there is no reason why this line even has to go through our state, it could be on the Oregon side at this point where there are no homes already. They are trying to find out where there will be the least squaking and complaining, a few of the "rich homes" routes have already been dropped because of "landowner concerns" but us poor folks, as usual, are the ones screwed.
The latest we heard is that our property will not be chosen, which should be a relief, but it is still worth a fraction of what it would have been because we still officially would have to legally disclose the government intent to buy our land should we choose to sell.
Good thing we were not planning on moving.

 

[Icu4dzs]

govt taking/buying property has to happen. it sucks sure for the person it is happening too, but sometimes it does help that person also.

but without their right to step in to do big projects like power lines or gas lines or roads, the country would be no where, cause people could stop and control all progress....which might good in some situatinons, very bad in others.

there is never a perfect solution for any big govt projects. some will be happy they are happening, others will not benefit from it.

I felt this way, too, until it happened to us and see how they are mishandling it. They have lowered our property value even more than it would have been already, and it happened for everyone who recieved the letter even thought they cannot possibly use all the possible routes, thousands of homes got "the letter". They already have extensive power lines and alternate routes, they do not have to hold all our houses in limbo for three years while they decide. After we recieved our letters, property values here dropped an additional 30 percent approx and two people on our road walked away from their mortgages after that as their homes were for sale. The one across the road from us went from being for sale for 165,000 to selling for 35,000 within six months of our "letters". We realize property values dropped all over, but we bought when things were down and this made it much worse, we are now upside down on our loan like so many other people, but we bought when things were LOW. Meanwhile, there is no reason why this line even has to go through our state, it could be on the Oregon side at this point where there are no homes already. They are trying to find out where there will be the least squaking and complaining, a few of the "rich homes" routes have already been dropped because of "landowner concerns" but us poor folks, as usual, are the ones screwed.
The latest we heard is that our property will not be chosen, which should be a relief, but it is still worth a fraction of what it would have been because we still officially would have to legally disclose the government intent to buy our land should we choose to sell.
Good thing we were not planning on moving.

My Dear SD,
It does appear that you have "dodged the bullet" on this issue and the results, (while possibly "appearing" detrimental) MAY afford you the opportunity of your life.

The real estate market is as fickle as any in this world. It changes because real estate brokers cause it to happen (often in collusion with their friends who work for our government. Who ever said there is NO corruption in our country?).

They decide that the "property values are lower" The county assessors office will NEVER reduce the value of your property, you can "go to the track with that bet"!!! Even if they did it wound take far longer than this is projected to occur so the net change would still be in favor of the buyer.

So why can this turn out in your favor?

My guess is if the real estate brokers are driving down the prices, they are looking at buying those properties as low as they can drive them. Of course they are also doing this so the government (the good friends of the real estate brokers) would only have to pay "fair market value" based on the property values at that time rather than the assessed value established by the local tax office.
(Who said the government employees we sit with in church are really our friends anyway?)

Once the power line or whatever project plan is in place, the properties that WERE NOT affected by it will go way back up in value/cost once again...You know they will raise the price of anything they bought at bargain basement prices...right? So you get in the game RIGHT HERE!

The time to strike is when the "iron is hot" so they say. ( Just like the real estate brokers will do) If you and your DH have the least bit of "risk taker"/entrepreneurial spirit left in you (and good credit rating so they have to give you a loan), I'd tell you to go look at the properties you might like to own (or move to if yours suddenly got consumed) and where the prices are being driven down. If you find one (or more) you might be smart to buy they while the price is low and wait a short while. Spread them out so the plans for the "project" will not be able to affect every one that you look at. What you'll be doing is speculating that one of them might go down, but not all.

In fact, if you get a couple of your neighbors involved in this with you, you might be able to "beat them at their own game" and sell those properties at a better price once the plans for the project are established. Foreclosures are the ones to watch but whatever you do, don' t let any bank/realtor get you involved with any "short sale" because they will find a way to screw you (Don't ask me how I learned this!)

The concept is "get in the game" and watch the prices drop. The lower the better for you...(in a sense). Once they are really low, watch to see who is trying to buy them then...I'll bet you that it will be those real estate folks or their "buddies".

I've seen this happen in a number of places and it does work to hurt some folks but it makes others richer. If you know what they are doing, you can work it so the realtors are pushed out by getting into the game yourself.

What might even happen is that you might find a place you like better than where you are now. You said you "bought low" and if they aren't going to go through your place then you might have some equity in that place to offset some loan you would make to buy another place that lost value. For that matter, you might like a place so much better than what you have now that you'd move to it, once the plans for the project spare it from the bulldozer!

The drop from $165K to $35K is substantial. That is the "asking price" and you can even work that down if you get tough with the realtor. If you can get a note for $165 K and buy a number of places at around $35K, you would be doing quite well.

It might make the deal sour for the folks who are losing it, but then if they work with you, you could sell it back to them at a modest profit (based on your costs to do it) so they would get their home back and you'd make a few bucks. You figure the cost of your time and effort to obtain the place and if it doesn't get the "axe" by the gov't project, you can make a few bucks and help the folks who got the shaft (assuming you are so inclined.)

Getting a few neighbors into it with you, forming a small company and kicking the realtors "butts" might get you a nice opportunity in your area. They won't use all the routes and the ones that they do use will have to be bought by the government at "fair market value". The term they use is "dollar/cost averaging".

Frankly, this could be a really good time for you and DH. Yes, it is a bit risky but if you distribute the risk over say 3 places (which should each be on different project route selection lists), and only one is affected you can make some money for your childrens college fund by taking some risk now on the other two.

If you decide to "challenge the local realtors" be sure to do it as a "corporation" or "LLC" so they don't go after you personally. Folks who are used to "screwing other folks" don't take kindly to getting screwed themselves...LOL

As I said, form that company with the folks who are "getting screwed" so they can at least get something back in the longer run. In the immortal words of Benjamin Franklin "If we don't all hang together, we will assuredly all hang separately!"
//BT//
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