What line of work are you in?

[enjoy the ride]

I just saw on a PBS thing that autism continues to increase even though it has be many years since Thimerisol has been stopped being in virtually all vaccines.
It is really an easily examined idea about vaccines and autism as there is a population that had huge numbers of vaccines much earlier than the general population. Military dependents.
I had my first trip overseas when I was 5 and received about at least 17 vaccinations within a few weeks of leaving- three and four in each arm repeatedly. That was 55 years ago. Yes I'm that old. And then more each time we travelled outside the US.
If there was a connection, then the children in that situation would have had a higher rate of autism- I don't know if anyone ever looked at that data or if it'e possible now. Would be interesting.
Military children were used as guinea pigs for lots of things- I can remember taking liquid penicillan as a child- it was a trial to see if it would work better. I've got a feeling that it failed as an experiment as it was so bad tasting that my mom, who was very determined, couldn't get me to take it.
We also acted as the groups for tesing out IQ tests when they first become popular- I took dozens of different kinds.
I would suspect a problem in utereo for autism but just a guess.

 

[Beekissed]

I'm afraid Thimerosal is still very much in use in a lot of vaccines. It wasn't about 5 years ago I was giving it in flu vaccines! I've heard it is also used in the vaccine developed for genital warts. It is still considered a legal ingredient in vaccines and the government is leaving that decision up to the drug manufacturers, whether to include it or not.

I think they feel the exposure to this chemical is most dangerous when given to babies, and the increase in mandatory vaccines, from 10 to 24, in the 80s and 90s may be a contributing factor. I'm not sure if the effects would be as strong for a 5 year old. They really push to have all vaccines pretty much completed in infancy now, where I remember still getting them in grade school. Actually, you cannot enter school now without all your vaccines being current and up to date.

This is a link that states the Thimerosal-Autism link has been disproved:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=4099059&page=2

And one that is still maintaining the connection is valid:

http://www.thimerosal-news.com/news/thimerosal-autism-news.html

Now, I may be way off base here, but I would tend to find the one that doesn't advertise a drug for a major drug company on its site as the one I'm most likely to believe.

Frankly, I'm quite skeptical of anything the government has forced upon us and told us is good for our health. The government tends to leap first and look later, especially when millions of dollars are in play from drug companies. They have a very powerful lobby.

 

[patandchickens]

I am not going within fifty feet of the autism/vaccine thing.

However I would like to add one thing to the (very interesting) discussion, especially for anyone for whom this is their first encounter with the concept of Aspergers:

it is not necessarily a yes/no, either/or, "Aspergers-syndrome versus Not" situation. Well, from a formal, psych diagnostic standpoint it is made into a yes/no dichotomy, sure. But in terms of what various people are actually LIKE in this world, I do not think it is anything at all like a hard and fast division. It is a continuum (actually probably a BUNCH of continuums, composed of a bunch of different factors and someone who is 'unusual' on one axis may be perfectly average on others).

For instance, I suspect my husband might make the diagnostic criteria for Aspergers -- *just* -- if someone ever duct taped him together and dragged him off to a psychologist and got him to respond to questins in an honest way (ha)... but honestly I think it's as much b/c of the circumstances of his life as innate predisposition (youngest of family, momma's boy, encouraged to remain dependant and never helped/encouraged to develop life skills or practice social interactions or live by himself).

I myself was believed to be borderline-autistic as a child (and this was back in the sixties when autism was a MUCH less well-known or frequently-diagnosed thing), and although I clearly don't meet diagnostic criteria for 'full-blown' autism and not for Aspergers either, I am still Not Quite Normal in some particular respects. (Although part of that is very definitely from personal history not inborn nature). My father is *very very* like some Aspergers' individuals in some ways, but only some, and there is no way he would ever be classified as having Aspergers.

(P.S. honestly, I think a very very very large number of perfectly regular ol' people have trouble (or inability) making eye contact with someone in, specifically, a stressful or confrontational situation )

I guess my point is, people should not read a few things about Aspergers and go "whoa nelly, I or this person I know obviously has it!" And furthermore, IMO while it is probably to some degree *necessary* for psychologists to create cut-and-dried yes-no diagnostic criteria and proceed from there, it is not necessarily the best approach to understanding the world if you are not a psychologist but are just trying to live your life

There are all different kinds of people in the world, and different people "tick" differently in various respects. If a particular untraditional sort of "tick-age" is causing a person problems, then there are usually ways to work towards a solution to those problems, IRRESPECTIVE of what diagnosis (if any) the DSM-whatevernumberitis officially slots something into. Or, if a particular way a person ticks is untraditional but they can live with it reasonably okay, then it's probably not something to get too excited about.

JMHO,

Pat

 

[Beekissed]

I would have to agree with that theory, Pat! I haven't met a normal person in my whole life! Well...except me, of course! Don't get excited, people, that was said with tongue firmly in cheek!

I would have to agree, though. Heck, if one were to dissect my family and group them into their proper psychosis, well, it would be nigh on impossible! Too many of the same characteristics for each disorder, is it nature vs. nurture or a healthy combination of both, would we even know the difference if someone hadn't labeled it as an -osis or -ism?

Sometimes, I think they were always there, down through the generations, like Pat suggests, and were just not studied, isolated and labeled with a diagnosis as much as they are now. I think, though, the world was a little more conducive for learning to adapt our individual "quirks" to fit societal norms. Schools were more structured and provided less distractions for the whole ADD crowd, group games and supervision by teachers were more in use to encourage a socially inept child, classrooms were smaller and more intimate, making assessment of individual development much easier. The resources for helping these individuals were not as plentiful, but I think the kids had more one on one intervention in those days by teachers and parents.

A combination of things? I can put my mind around that....

 

[heatherv]

I am not going within fifty feet of the autism/vaccine thing.

lol.. my thoughts exactly! I enjoyed reading your post!

w/ the autism thing, I only know what's occurred in my family. My 8yo and 2yo (showing signs) were both premies... and both had traumatic births. So that's something I"ve always wondered whether it has anything to do w/ who/how they are.

Let me add DH's opinion on the whole add/adhd diagnosis outburst..... "it's not a disorder if EVERYONE has it, that would make them 'normal', right?"

 

[Okiemommy]

Wow, I need to go to bed and read this tomorrow I think. Pat I am so confused by your post.

Edited to eliminate an extra letter.

 

[the simple life]

I was confused by her post too, I thought it was just me.
Anyway, this thread has been hijacked on the person who started it so I am going to cease and desist after this post.
This is a topic that can go on and on. There is way more information on the autsim/mercury debate than can be covered here. I have a wealth of information on this and the average person who has no experience or prior knowledge to it isn't ever going to understand it.
I will say this, Beekissed is absolutely right, its still in the vaccines.
Its clearly listed right on the ingredients, thats what I mean by the average person not having this information, someone posted that it had been removed a few years ago and thats inaccuarate information.
The other thing is, I would caution about making light of any diagnosis or to self diagnose.
Aspergers can be debilitating and its real.
People lose jobs, have no friendships and are unable to function in our society because they don't have the same ability to read social cues, facial expressions, tones of voice.
They get on a topic and continue to discuss it for an endless amount of time and drive people away and don't even realize it.
I would not compare someone who has been sheltered or been a mommy's boy to someone with a debilitating social disorder.
You cannot make someone into an autistic or give someone aspergers.
You can inhibit their growth, but that is drastically different from a life altering disorder that you don't grow out of or into.
I really don't believe in any border line diagnosis.
Some people are just odd, thats it and you can't justify it by trying to make them fit into some criteria to make it nice and neat.
It does not mean they are almost autistic or almost aspergers.
Unless you have studied it or have firsthand experience, truly firsthand experience or worked with these individuals( I mean the clinically diagnosed individuals not the ones you suspect have it because you read the checklist for symptoms and you know someone who kind of resembles it), you really would not understand its depth.

Okay, I for one am returning this thread to its owner.

 

[annmarie]

In the spirit of returning this thread to it's owner, I'm a cubicle worker. While I sit here in my cube on the cube farm I do a lot of work with historical Congressional documents, some thrilling, most not-so-thrilling. I won't get into details of exactly what I do out of fear of boring you all to tears. (Oh, and my husband sits about 20 cubes down from me!)

 

[enjoy the ride]

Blessedly, deeply committed as and thoroughly retired. Not a lot of money but my time's mostly my own.

But I cubicled for years too. Was very frustrating but not at all dull.

 

[krjwaj]

In the spirit of returning this thread to it's owner,

thanks!