Where do you live and how does that help/hinder self-sufficiency?

[miss_thenorth]

so, why are bags better? Aren't they both plastic? Or, are the bags considerably less plastic than the jugs? I found deck adirondack chairs once online made out of recycled milk jugs--several hundred per chair

You get one bag of milk that holds three-one litre bags that you put in the milk holder.

The outside bag is strong plastic with no holes so this can be re-used for many things. I save them b/c my moms church crochets them into mats for third world countries, but they used to be great for plucking the kitty litter and things like that.

The one litre bags are also thick good plastic, which can be washed out and used for wrapping onions and such when storing things in the fridge, you can use them as freezer bags, they have so many uses--they are great. I hardly ever buy plastic wrap and never buy sandwich bags. The only freezer bags I buyare the BIG ones.

Pat, what all do you use them for?

 

[poppycat]

OK I can't even picture what milk would look like in a bag, and I think pat is informative and she occasionally cracks me up what's not to like?

ANYWAY the topic:

I live in the suburbs of Portland, Oregon.

Advantages:
Lots of farmers markets and CSA's
The community around here generally encourages recycling, frugality etc. Call it eco-chic I guess, (but it also kind of gets on my nerves. Sometimes there's a bit of a smugness to it which isn't doing anyone any good IMO)
My city is pretty relaxed with the regulations regarding chickens and gardening and the like. You can do whatever you want provided that you don't create problems for your neighbors. The city is also making an effort to encourage rainwater harvest, and overall water conservation too.
There is a very long growing season, in fact frost is pretty rare in many winters the ground doesn't freeze at all.

Disadvantages:
Land is EXPENSIVE, I mean breathtakingly expensive. Portland has this thing called the urban growth boundary, and it is meant to discourage urban sprawl. It controls sprawl all right but your average lot size is tiny. Makes it hard to have a big garden.
The rain in the winter can really get old after the 100th straight day of drizzle and gray skies.
My biggest gripe about Oregon is it is a pain in the neck to grow a decent tomato. It just doesn't get consistently warm in the summer.

 

[miss_thenorth]

OK I can't even picture what milk would look like in a bag, and I think pat is informative and she occasionally cracks me up what's not to like?

.

I will work on a pic tomorrow: however, I have been having difficulties uploading pics on this site

 

[dacjohns]

When I lived in Wisconsin we could get milk in a bag. It was a little bit cheaper, tasted the same, and cut down on waste. You put the bag in a pitcher designed for it and snipped the corner of the bag. It worked great.

If you Google milk bag you will get lots of examples.

 

[annmarie]

SW Ont, Canada
Pros
great growing season, with lotsa farmers stands to buy produce

I'm really surprised (but intrigued!) to hear someone from Ontario say that they have a great growing season. Are you located in some kind of microclimate, or do you just mean that it's great in comparison to the North Pole or something? Seriously though, how long is your growing season?

 

[miss_thenorth]

OK, I must admit that I am shocked by this presumption. All I can say is look at a map. I am an hour east of Detroit Michigan, and on the other side of Lake Erie from Ohio. Believe it or not, there are ALOT of states that are farther north than we are.

We are on about the same parallel as Illinois, Nebraska, Idaho, or thereabouts. Our growing season starts in the beginning of May and goes until mid October. Our summers are usually around the 80F to 100F range with usually alot of humidity.

We don't wear parkas year round, we do have running water, and our roads are paved.(sorry I couldn't resist )

Even whenI lived "up north", near Timmins, ON, my growing season was first full moon in June, until near the end of September. And that was considered northern Ontario, which would be the same parallel as Washington.

Edited to correct my geography

 

[me&thegals]

wow-cool! Thanks for the geography lesson--seriously! I got out my map of NA and was surprised to see how much of Canada dips way down by the Great Lakes and is actually further south than I am!

 

[reinbeau]

The other thing about that area of Ontario are the lakes act like a giant heat sink. So the warmth of the summer lasts quite a bit - but so does the cold of the winter. I was born in Michigan and grew up with real seasons. Out here in New England we really have rollercoaster weather - and that reeks havoc on plants, especially fruit trees. They grow great fruit there around those Great Lakes!

Miss_Thenorth, you shouldn't be shocked, most people think Canada is cold. If you haven't experienced the climate you have around where you live they really can't understand how anyone could claim it's a great growing climate. You can't use latitude as a climate gauge, however. England is much higher in latitude than us here in New England, yet they have a much milder season due to ocean effects. Many people don't understand the various climates of the earth (which is why we're having another great debate).

 

[miss_thenorth]

I suppose your right, Reinbeau. but I would have to disagree with you--to some extent-- about having every season, although for more southern climates I can understand it.

When we did live up north, I was in awe of the seasons there, compared to here. Right now i classify the seasons (here) as either really hot and really cold. Not this spring, but several here, we have gone from having the heat on to having the air on all in the same week.

Up north, the seasons were so much more defined.

But I guess some of us, who haven't experienced other geographic locations, we are sort of in our own little bubble of reality.

So I'll put my shock back in my pocket

 

[enjoy the ride]

I lived in Ann Arbor Mi and it was cold- not as cold as Traverse City Mi, where I spent one winter. That had frost in June and in August the same year and 13 feet of snow fell in 3 days.in October.
Now it is considered cold where I live by people down the hill. I live at 1500 feet and get snow in winter, usually a couple of weeks or so, occasionally more.
But as I'm 7 miles inland from the Pacific, it never is too bad for too long.
I remember when I moved here from Michigan- I used to laugh at people in their insulated parkas when it was over 40 degrees- what whoosie's I thought. Now I drag out the polar fleece at that temperature too.
Cold is relative but I think that Ontario (anywhere) is cooooooold. Cold cold cold- not artic cold, not even Minnesota cold but still............... Going out to hug my lemon tree....................