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[Icu4dzs]

ICU, I respect your opinions, but I don't worry about the 'end times'. If it's going to be that bad, I hope the bomb drops right on my house so I don't have to worry about it all.

Actually, neither do I. While I see the economy changing and things going a different direction, the "end times" are a different situation. On the other hand, I would NEVER underestimate the enemy. The world changes from time to time. Ask the folks in Europe who lived in the 1930's to 1950's. They had some really interesting times. I don't need to expound on that.

For me, defense is not the driving force. But to each, his own.

Nor mine. However, folks do change when faced with overwhelming stress. Depending on where you are will determine how much of a problem other people can present. Where I live, almost everyone is a farmer and they all know how to "survive" out here on the prairie. In the cities however, things could be a bit different. As you say, "to each his own"

Last year when talk of escalating food prices was rampant, our friends went out and bought a bunch of ammo to stockpile to defend their garden and chickens. I planted a bigger garden instead and learned what wild edibles grew in my area and took an online herbalism course (new skills for me).

Of course, this is the more "civilized" approach, I agree. But unfortunately, after spending 40 years in uniform prior to my 1st retirement, I learned that there are a lot of folks out there who just don't think the same way nice folks or I do so they take a "different approach". I wish that weren't true but we do have to deal with some reality.

I saw 'The Postman'. What I remember was that there were also those that worked together for the betterment of all concerned.

Yes, that was what inspired me about that movie, but then we had to deal with the "General Bethlehem" issues and that was the issue to which I referred. I've seen that potential in a number of folks, which concerns me greatly. We'll only know if/when it happens. I was on my way to have lunch with one of my colleagues on 10 SEP 2001. While I was walking to her office, I thought to myself, "Maybe I'm just paranoid and all this preparation stuff is just making me crazy and I should stop worrying about something happening". The next morning, I realized I was NOT paranoid and from then on, I have worked hard to be able to deal with a serious civil disturbance/catastrophe in a more prepared manner. If the "bomb" hits my house and me, then it will be G*d's decision and I don't worry about HIS way of doing things...I do worry about HIS judgement though...as do we all, I guess.

 

[patandchickens]

ICU, I respect your opinions, but I don't worry about the 'end times'.

Me neither actually, but I find it entertaining and educational to think about in the abstract nonetheless

I saw 'The Postman'. What I remember was that there were also those that worked together for the betterment of all concerned.

Read the original novella (or the book it was expanded into)... that is mainly ABOUT how the bonds of social behavior pull us through. (Great novella. Hated the movie though, and not *entirely* b/c I am not a Kevin Costner fan LOL)

Pat

 

[KevsFarm]

One of my favorite skills is being able to go down to the bay and be able to find some kind of good food.Hard clams, soft clams, mussels,oysters or scallops...I can almost alway forage up some kind of meal.Of course, i do well with growing, canning foods.A collection of useful tools and knowledge of there use.Know how to heat my house , nice and toasty on the cheap, very frugal use of electric, like many here the list goes on.What flips me out is all the people out there who haven't got a clue about any of these skills.

 

[Wifezilla]

Other animals as meat sources, along with milk will be necessary. Raising, and keeping those animals is going to be of significant importance in TSHTF scenario. So yes, we will need farmers to do hard work.

That is why i got in to raising ducks and quail 3 years ago. I just recently butchered and ate some excess drakes. I wouldn't exactly call myself SKILLED yet, but I am getting there

I saw 'The Postman'. What I remember was that there were also those that worked together for the betterment of all concerned.

Yes, there were enclaves with great people. They had to barricade themselves from the looters, bullies and thugs!

And like Pat said, read the book if you get a chance. It's awesome.

Here is an issue of a newsletter I got recently that makes you really think...

"BFP#10 Do You Need a Gun to Garden?

Well guns aren't really that useful for digging or anything like that. But do you need a gun if you are becoming self-reliant? Let me tell you a true story that happened to me which had me re-think the whole concept of security.

Back when we were first starting to sell the DVD Food Production Systems for a Backyard or Small Farm I had a very shocking experience. When I say shocking, I mean I was really dumbfounded, and almost couldn't speak for a long time.

I was at a local shop talking with the owner about carrying the DVD in his store. He was congenial enough, but looked me right in the eye and told me "I will never need to grow food". I told him that you never knew what was coming and being able to grow food could be a crucial skill. He flatly told me he would never have to grow food. I asked him why, and he said "because I have this", and from under the counter he pulled out a big black semi-automatic gun.

I stared at the gun not understanding, and I asked him 'What do you mean?"

"Well, if anything happens" he said, "it is like this; with this gun I can get all the food I need from people like you who grow it".

Several customers who had been listening in on the conversation agreed with the shop owner. They were ordinary looking people and I would have never guessed they would have this kind of thinking.

Now I live in Texas, which has a proud tradition of gun ownership. Buying, selling, and swapping guns is easy and legal - in fact, it is a major pastime for many Texans. And while Texas may be on the more extreme end of the spectrum, that kind of mentality exists in some form everywhere.

So I began a project of researching guns and self-defense. Within the history of recent periods it is well documented that crime and violence go up as economic conditions go down. And there certainly are scenarios where law and order break down. Having some level of defense is an important skill.

Here is a short summary of the major points and useful resources I have discovered about self-defense. One of the first things I found is gun owners are strongly opinion-ed and they rarely agree. Most of them were very friendly and offered lots of help in my process of trying to find what weapons I might need and how to use them. But be aware there is a lot of conflicting information out there.

Getting some basic training is essential. Of all the videos I've seen, I found the series produced by The Outdoor Channel titled "The Best Defense" to have the most useful and specific information for a novice gun owner. You can order a copy from Amazon.com here.

Of the many trainings that are available there are some that are free or low cost. We attended an excellent training done over a weekend where they teach rifle marksmanship and an entertaining dose of revolutionary war history. The training is sponsored by a group called Appleseed. As of 2010, the course was free to women and children, and only $75 for men. They welcomed beginners and a majority of the rifles were inexpensive .22 caliber. To find an Appleseed event near you clickhere.

As a woman, I found that I felt comfortable with the .22LR caliber as a first handgun and rifle. Lower startup cost, relative quiet, and low recoil helped my skittish nerves and fear of these powerful new tools. As I gained more experience and got comfortable with gun safety and operation, I moved up to a 9mm handgun. Over half of all hand guns sold in the US are 9mm and with that much popularity the caliber is likely to be available as long as ammunition is available.

Another very common and versatile gun is the shotgun. By far, 12 guage is the most widely available size. If you are only going to have one gun, I have to agree with the experts recommendation of the 12 guage shotgun with a shorter barrel as an all around weapon. The first time I shot a 12 guage it was loaded with heavy buckshot and I almost fell over from the noise and recoil and I was afraid of them for a long time. Later, a friend introduced me to low recoil rounds, and after some testing, I realized that even simple bird shot loads (which are fairly light) would be highly effective in home - or garden - defense scenarios. My 11 year old son can also handle the 12 gauge with lighter loads.

Hopefully, you and I (or my son!) will never get to the point of needing a weapon to defend our gardens and livestock. But it sure is something to think about - and prepare for. Actually, I have been finding it a lot of fun to go shooting.

Bang! Next week we'll look at the fortune you are probably pissing away.

Until then,

Marjory Wildcraft
& the Backyard Food Production Team"

 

[calendula]

Holy cats! That story kind of left me feeling dumbfounded...and naive. It's hard to believe that people could actually have that kind of attitude about survival.

 

[valmom]

WZ, after reading that story I am depressed. In trying to become SELF sufficient I probably am setting us up to become targets instead. If that attitude is actually prevalent anywhere but Texas, I do hope the catastrophe (whatever it will be!) will kill me and mine off.

 

[patandchickens]

Quite honestly, I think people are frequently full of bull when they say things like the guy quoted in that article; but even insofar as they truly mean it, I do not think it's going to be a major thing beyond the very early days of whatever collapse-of-civilization event one is imagining.

Reason being, if you have to go shooting people for every darn thing you need, it will not be too long (especially in Texas, LOL) before you run into someone who will shoot YOU first. Thus, these people would be weeded out of the population of survivors real, real fast.

To the extent that there would be a problem with people taking your stuff by force, I will bet you dollars to donuts that it would be a much more organized and selective thing, and probably soon become much more like mob-style extortion than actual kill-everyone-and-take-the-carrots.

This is not really as purely-theoretical and I-wonder-what-would-happen as most on this list tend to assume, btw. Once again I would urge you to learn some recent history and current events in other parts of the world.

Pat

 

[Wannabefree]

I don't see this as a viable issue in my neck of the woods.

Anyway...when folks who think like this are met with opposition(another gun), they'll generally cower and back down. It's a simple threat. Most couldn't pull the trigger, or assess the situation well enough to know they better pull the trigger or be killed themselves. Most times it will be as simple as calling their bluff. Learn to read body language. The mouth lies, the body does not.

I don't plan on going around shooting folks because they are hungry and unskilled. Nor do I plan on letting some stupid hoodlum take me out for my stock or garden. I won't kill anybody given a choice, but I know how to make them wish they hadn't stepped foot on my place to steal. There are things much more painful than being shot or killed. I just don't see that as a threat to worry about myself.

I have plenty of security and few guns.

 

[pinkfox]

this exact kind of situation is why i want to be within traveling distance yet still well off major roads and routes of transport if things do down hill...
most 'none prepared' will generally stick to major routes partially due to lack of fule, partially due to ease of navigation and mostly due to the fact that cities and large towns with easily lootable facilities are typically along major roadways...

im hoping by the time the "ill prepared" make their way far enough off the beaten path to find my little peice of heaven, most would already have been picked off by better marksmen and sane people, or theyll have completly run out of ammo...

though i do plan on learning to shoot guns of various sizes accuratly and have a couple of weapns and some ammo stockpiled as a just in case...i hope ill be far enough away from civilization and secure enough otherwise to not have to use it.

i think being able to correctly handle a gun is a usefull skill in general because if nothing else theres always hunting...

but for me more usefull skills would be the likes of animal husbandry...not only housing and breeding to produce the best stock you can, but also the best butchery and health care methods for the long term survival of your livestock AND yourself.
carpentry ect BY HAND...we have all these fancy tools nowerdays which are lovely...but there could be a situation where these toold no longer work...
i actually took a wood working class in college, i like shop, its fun...and was absolutly appaled when it was made very clear to me that 1: they dont teach hand tool methods and 2: noone in the class could safley use most hand tools...
need a drill, well we have a pillar drill, saw? what for, we have circulars and benche saws...

the teacher said it was unnessicary to lean how to use the "old methods" because they are "outdated and useless" and "anyone can do it anyway" so i brought in some of my dads old tools (not his good hand tools) and let everyone play a little...
it was saddening to see how few people, including the teacher had problems efficiently using the hand drill or the hand saws...i didnt dare introduce them to chisels...i cant imagine how many missing fingers we would have had LOL.

bartering is also another usefull skill that unfortunatly seems to be being forgotten these days...

 

[KevsFarm]

Pinkfox...bartering is on the upswing where i live.I barter with several people, and know others that do it as well.I just hooked up with an old fishing buddy i hadn't seen for yrs.He said he was still fishing, i asked if he was interested in bartering fish for eggs and veggies, he jumped right it...! I traded him 2 doz. eggs and two lbs of asparagus for a couple lbs of sea bass fillets...we were both happy with the deal, and plan more trades.
I trade eggs for scrape veggies from a grocery store for my chickens.I also work a few hrs a week at a chicken farm for chicken feed,no money involved...Bartering is alive and well around these parts...!