The Old Ram-Australia said:G'day Gang,well its Wed. morning,SO,what happened last night ?Sat down to have a look at the Fed Gov Budget and fell asleep!!........
So its blowing a "bloody gale",Jenny's started a Slow Cooked Beef Casserole for dinner tonight and I thought I had better catch up.
Q & A: DL.So if you were a fox what do you think would be the easiest meal to catch?A rabbit ,to much running.Some Lizards or Frogs or how about a lamb?You just walk right up to it,grab it in your mouth and back to the "den" you go.
~GD:Before the start of the last drought we used to grow out calves to 12 months old and then sell them on to finishers.We tried feeding for the first summer and then in the Autumn sold the lot to concentrate on the sheep(lucky we did as it was dry for the next 9years).....Its interesting to note that "cattle prices" have gone up in the last 12 months,they are now back to what they were 10/15 years ago,but the cost of production in that time has more than doubled.Cattle production around here mainly relies on high inputs,both in pastures and ferts.(Also we are just getting too old to be handling those "big animals")
The sheep/cattle rotation is common practice down here as it breaks the "worm cycle"and so leads to lower production costs and also spreads the finical risk,if one market is down the other one is most likely up. The other thing is it maintains balance in the pasture mix,as diversity is the key to "soil health".The sheep are not effected by "cattle worms"and the short pasture after the sheep leave exposes the lava to the sunlight and drier ground conditions which kills them.
Here's a few questions for you .
What type of cattle are most common?Blaxk Angus (SP) and crosses
What type of sheep?The white wooly Kind? Sorry but I know nothing about sheep
Being semi-tropical ,how do they cope with Liver-Fluke?Well I met him because he had heard that ducks (that I raise) could help with Liver-Fluke by eating them. I had never heard that and I sold him a flock of ducks (44) that were known for ranging and hunting (Indian Runners) he never came back but I see a larger flock on his land, natural reproduction? BTW these ducks herd like sheep and are often used to train young herding dogs
What sort of "drenching strategy's" I don't even know what that is, I assume it is for sheep since cattle are usually given a rub to help keep insects off do they employ?
I think the chap you talk about will be in business a lot longer and will achieve better profitability over the longer term than his straight cattle neighbors.Any idea what his "rest cycle" is between gratings?Is it a "set time" or does he just measure "bounce-back" and more them on when its ready?I think bounce back, remember he can irrigate during a dry summer all I know is that his pasture looks very good compared to some other farmers. Farms tend to be small since they were mostly tobacco farms until the government got out of the tobacco price support system. Lots switched to feeding hogs or chickens both of which are proving unprofitable.~gd
Sorry your friend had such a bad run of luck.
THE CHATreparing for the next drought:Knowing what it costs?
If the last drought taught me anything its that if you are to survive you must know what its costing be in control of them.costs are split into 2 groups ,Fixed and Variable.
Fixed Costs are the ones you can not escape,ie:Gov charges,State Taxes,Power /Phone and the like.
Variable Charges are input costs,chem,ferts,vet and all the things you can put off or can modify.EXAMPLE:A chap we know has a feed budget of about $20K a year to get his stock through winter,to get those funds he must breed ,raise and sell about 40 calves(say 45 breeders),his country suffers because it is being driven to within an inch of its life and most times it appears that it will "fall over the edge"at any moment.....It is possible that with "conservative management "you can achieve a good bottom line outcome and a reduced workload and stress level .
Each 3 months I do a P&L so we are aware of where we are at and if we need to take any actions to secure the future.
Well its almost time for "SMOKO",give the fingers a rest and see if I will venture outside at all today(except feed the dogs later),so as always we look forward to the next time you drop by and in the meantime stay safe................................T.O.R.........................
ADVENTURE'S DOWNUNDER OR FARMING IN PARADISE:An Old Rams view.
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The Old Ram-Australia
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G'day and welcome,Well it "blew and blew' the other day the temp got up to about 7C,but with a 5C wind chill.Fed the dogs and did some admin..................Today was "retail therapy",we got up in the dark ,it was -4C,wind chill about 2C,the humidity was so low there was hardly any moisture to freeze.
Q&A
anks ~gd for your reply,I will explain the "terms" you had trouble with,if you "bump "into that guy again maybe you could ask him some of the stuff for me(I did notice a few typo's in last nights post,sorry.).....The breed of sheep is of interest,because of the Liver Fluke thing......There is a small snail that carries part of the fluke's life cycle,he comes across as a very smart stockman to me,down here flocks of geese are used,but most use chemicals to control the problem ,the foxes are to hard on ducks unless you have large islands for them to roost on.We have provided habitat for the native ducks to assist us with any likely problem.This could prove to be a very profitable outlet for you were you to exploit it.Not only are they using a non-chemical control,but are getting meat to "boot".Liver Fluke can have quite severe impact on production outcomes.
Drenching is the use of a chemical to control stomach worms,they occur in both sheep and cattle,and even poultry.Cattle are usually "backlined" but sheep have to get it down the throat.On the pasture I did forget to say that by using both sheep and cattle ,is that the less palatable species for cattle are most likely eaten by the sheep,were he to only be grazing cattle over time the less desirable species would take over ,due to lack of grazing pressure. He is lucky being able to irrigate his pastures in summer.we don't have that luxury.
THE CHATreparing for the next droughtretty or Productive?
Unless you are a Stud,producing "ultra" high quality seed stock,I believe that for meat /wool production you should not be limited by "a breed",you should select sires that will advance your breeding objectives,be they meat or wool.The reason there are so many breeds is that farmers have crossed different breeds over time to get an animal that "performs" in their environment and generally speaking the progeny of two pure bred parents(say Dorset/Suffolk) will outperform either of the pure bred breeds (its called the F1 effect).Nature does not intend for every animal born to survive,if you pull a lamb and bottle it and "mother it" the odds are when it comes time for it to give birth,it will have trouble too.By saving this life you may in fact be breeding a "weakness" into the flock,prior to this last season if we had a ewe "flystruck"she was culled,over time we had reduced flystrike to less than 2% of the flock,it was in fact the season this year which exacerbated the problem.Stock that have been trained to hang around the gate waiting for the feed to come to them,will starve if they go to a new home and are expected to go out there and graze to get a feed.We select for "foraging ability" of the adult ewe's as we select for strong legs and good feet in our Rams.We expect our rams to be able to find and "cover " the in-season ewe"s.
So once again , the fingers are tiring and its time for my "beauty sleep".We hope you enjoyed your visit and will stop by again,don't forget this journal is a two way street,as I could be "banging away"and boring you all to tears,for me Q&A is the way I find out about you all.................................T.O.R.....................
Q&A
anks ~gd for your reply,I will explain the "terms" you had trouble with,if you "bump "into that guy again maybe you could ask him some of the stuff for me(I did notice a few typo's in last nights post,sorry.).....The breed of sheep is of interest,because of the Liver Fluke thing......There is a small snail that carries part of the fluke's life cycle,he comes across as a very smart stockman to me,down here flocks of geese are used,but most use chemicals to control the problem ,the foxes are to hard on ducks unless you have large islands for them to roost on.We have provided habitat for the native ducks to assist us with any likely problem.This could prove to be a very profitable outlet for you were you to exploit it.Not only are they using a non-chemical control,but are getting meat to "boot".Liver Fluke can have quite severe impact on production outcomes. Drenching is the use of a chemical to control stomach worms,they occur in both sheep and cattle,and even poultry.Cattle are usually "backlined" but sheep have to get it down the throat.On the pasture I did forget to say that by using both sheep and cattle ,is that the less palatable species for cattle are most likely eaten by the sheep,were he to only be grazing cattle over time the less desirable species would take over ,due to lack of grazing pressure. He is lucky being able to irrigate his pastures in summer.we don't have that luxury.
THE CHAT
reparing for the next droughtretty or Productive?Unless you are a Stud,producing "ultra" high quality seed stock,I believe that for meat /wool production you should not be limited by "a breed",you should select sires that will advance your breeding objectives,be they meat or wool.The reason there are so many breeds is that farmers have crossed different breeds over time to get an animal that "performs" in their environment and generally speaking the progeny of two pure bred parents(say Dorset/Suffolk) will outperform either of the pure bred breeds (its called the F1 effect).Nature does not intend for every animal born to survive,if you pull a lamb and bottle it and "mother it" the odds are when it comes time for it to give birth,it will have trouble too.By saving this life you may in fact be breeding a "weakness" into the flock,prior to this last season if we had a ewe "flystruck"she was culled,over time we had reduced flystrike to less than 2% of the flock,it was in fact the season this year which exacerbated the problem.Stock that have been trained to hang around the gate waiting for the feed to come to them,will starve if they go to a new home and are expected to go out there and graze to get a feed.We select for "foraging ability" of the adult ewe's as we select for strong legs and good feet in our Rams.We expect our rams to be able to find and "cover " the in-season ewe"s.
So once again , the fingers are tiring and its time for my "beauty sleep".We hope you enjoyed your visit and will stop by again,don't forget this journal is a two way street,as I could be "banging away"and boring you all to tears,for me Q&A is the way I find out about you all.................................T.O.R.....................
dragonlaurel
Improvising a more SS life
Hope y'all didnt blow away.
I normally think of foxes as very dangerous to chickens, but baby sheep are easy prey too.
It's handy to know which animals follow each other well on pasture, and how to time the moves. I'm trying to learn all I can now so I wont mess up too bad when I get land.
When is the best time (or temperature) to shear? Is it hard to learn to shear a sheep? Transporting animals costs time and money and stresses them, so I'm wondering if it would be easer to get clippers and make it a DIY job for about a dozen sheep.
I normally think of foxes as very dangerous to chickens, but baby sheep are easy prey too.
It's handy to know which animals follow each other well on pasture, and how to time the moves. I'm trying to learn all I can now so I wont mess up too bad when I get land.
When is the best time (or temperature) to shear? Is it hard to learn to shear a sheep? Transporting animals costs time and money and stresses them, so I'm wondering if it would be easer to get clippers and make it a DIY job for about a dozen sheep.
Ram, I am not good at keyboarding or spelling so I usually work in WORD and paste to post, last time I did not. Yes I know about the snails being the vectors for flukes. I know my water fowl and our domestic geese dont eat much in the way of insects, they graze like sheep and seldom go out their way to eat insects. The breed of duck I sold that guy is well known for their insect hunting. Also Fox are much less of a problem here than there (my Aussie duck lady told me the stories about shooting fox that were after her ducks) It is believed by our wild life people that the coyote keeps the fox, rabbit, and deer populations down, I think the fox is top predator except where you have dingoes? Ducks were a profitable hobby for me but my geese were my favorites (~gd is short for goosedragon which I use when posting on poultry boards) Because of my location we have large numbers of Asian Immigrants that are used to duck and duck eggs for eating. Both the eggs and meat command premium prices since the supply is limited and the demand is great. The male ducks are very decorative and I have sold hundreds of them for pond ducks ponds are very common here and ex-city people love to have colorful ducks on their ponds. I will sell a colorful assortment of all males and tell them they dont have to worry about hitting eggs while mowing or being overrun by ducks. I dont tell them that they will be looking for replacements within 2-3 years as predators thin out their flocks either. Some of my customers are on their sixth flock.
I thought drenching was like dipping. What you call backlines I call rubs basically a chemically treated line that cattle pass under to have the chemical deposited on their backs and the insecticide spreads throughout the body. Wool interferes. For poultry we usually slip a drop or two under the feathers on the birds neck.
I understand about irrigation, I have a brother-in- law in the far West where the climate is more like yours, his feed lot is on the edge of irrigation he keeps a fleet of cattle trucks and gets all the small town papers from the dry lands. When a drought hits he sends his trucks and buys stock that farmers cannot carry over at distressed prices and brings it back to water and feed until it is in good condition so they can be sold or sent to market. I asked him once about it and he said the stockmen hate me and love me at the same time, when they sell to me they know that there is no profit for them but at least it isnt the dead loss of watching their stock die on them due to lack of water or feed.
I thought drenching was like dipping. What you call backlines I call rubs basically a chemically treated line that cattle pass under to have the chemical deposited on their backs and the insecticide spreads throughout the body. Wool interferes. For poultry we usually slip a drop or two under the feathers on the birds neck.
I understand about irrigation, I have a brother-in- law in the far West where the climate is more like yours, his feed lot is on the edge of irrigation he keeps a fleet of cattle trucks and gets all the small town papers from the dry lands. When a drought hits he sends his trucks and buys stock that farmers cannot carry over at distressed prices and brings it back to water and feed until it is in good condition so they can be sold or sent to market. I asked him once about it and he said the stockmen hate me and love me at the same time, when they sell to me they know that there is no profit for them but at least it isnt the dead loss of watching their stock die on them due to lack of water or feed.
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The Old Ram-Australia
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OH ~GD,I'm so sorry ,I meant the typo's were in MY post and I thought it may have "confused everybody"...I guess there will be times when the different terms used will cause confusion,thats why I made a point of saying a few posts ago,if in doubt,just ASK.................Once again I'm so sorry about the "spelling thing",if it was not for "spellcheck",no one would be able to follow my posts.
...........................................T.O.R.................................
PS...Normal journal post later....................
...........................................T.O.R.................................
PS...Normal journal post later....................
framing fowl
On a mission
When is lambing time for you during the year?
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The Old Ram-Australia
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G'day gang,well yesterday (friday) was a nothing day,it was just to cold to be out there...................Today I managed two hours of spraying before the wind made it just to uncomfortable to continue,I took both the dogs in the trailer as I am trying to get them to stay when told,now Ruby ,due to her breeding will obey once told a couple of times.But Jack,who likes to think "he" runs the show jumped out a few times when he thought I was not looking,as soon as I looked back Ruby would look in the direction he was as if to say"He's over there Dad".So I would "yell"at him to" get up"and after another couple of yells,he would wander back and look over at me as if to say"in my good time ,Dad".But in the end he sat and waited until I said they could both go for a run.
Q & A: FF.This year we will be lambing from the first week of Sept on.
DL:We shear when the ewe's are about 12 weeks in (12 weeks after the Rams are put in with the ewe's).We have tried from Sept to Oct,its a bit of a lottery,if you go to late you have "fly" problems at marking,if you go to early the feed may have not got away.............I taught myself to shear after watching shearers at field days and the like,when I first started I used to shear "one before lunch and one after lunch",now I do between 30/50 a day,depending what time I get started and how well the "gear" is running.I got from MLA(Meat and Livestock Australia)a full set of DVD's on the art of shearing ,all about the gear and how to sharpen "combs and cutters".The last one is the most important and is as hard to learn as shearing itself IMO.I try to have the sheep in "forward condition"as there is nothing harder to do than shear a "skinny sheep".I en-devour not to cut the sheep about if I can.I have watched "fast shearers"and if you take a look in the "counting out pens",it looks as though someone threw a "hand grenade" in with them there is so much "blood".....I think most "home shearers "use electric hand pieces,I myself have not found them to be much good,it may be alright if you only have a few and are not in a hurry,but what ever gear you use you need "sharp "combs and cutters.Our shed has a Sunbeam overhead with "straight shafting"as this set-up delivers enough power to drive the hand piece with-out tiring the shearer to much .(if you go back to the picture of the dogs you will see our shearing board.
Here's another view.
On the subject of what follows what ,if you have sheep and goats it wont work ,because they "share" the same "worm species",its a good move to learn as much as you can "before you get the farm",but be warned you will still make mistakes,we have been at it for years and we still get caught.
I think we will leave the CHAT for the next time we meet.Hope you have enjoyed tonights "ramblings"(LOL)..................T.O.R...............
Q & A: FF.This year we will be lambing from the first week of Sept on.
DL:We shear when the ewe's are about 12 weeks in (12 weeks after the Rams are put in with the ewe's).We have tried from Sept to Oct,its a bit of a lottery,if you go to late you have "fly" problems at marking,if you go to early the feed may have not got away.............I taught myself to shear after watching shearers at field days and the like,when I first started I used to shear "one before lunch and one after lunch",now I do between 30/50 a day,depending what time I get started and how well the "gear" is running.I got from MLA(Meat and Livestock Australia)a full set of DVD's on the art of shearing ,all about the gear and how to sharpen "combs and cutters".The last one is the most important and is as hard to learn as shearing itself IMO.I try to have the sheep in "forward condition"as there is nothing harder to do than shear a "skinny sheep".I en-devour not to cut the sheep about if I can.I have watched "fast shearers"and if you take a look in the "counting out pens",it looks as though someone threw a "hand grenade" in with them there is so much "blood".....I think most "home shearers "use electric hand pieces,I myself have not found them to be much good,it may be alright if you only have a few and are not in a hurry,but what ever gear you use you need "sharp "combs and cutters.Our shed has a Sunbeam overhead with "straight shafting"as this set-up delivers enough power to drive the hand piece with-out tiring the shearer to much .(if you go back to the picture of the dogs you will see our shearing board.
Here's another view.
On the subject of what follows what ,if you have sheep and goats it wont work ,because they "share" the same "worm species",its a good move to learn as much as you can "before you get the farm",but be warned you will still make mistakes,we have been at it for years and we still get caught.
I think we will leave the CHAT for the next time we meet.Hope you have enjoyed tonights "ramblings"(LOL)..................T.O.R...............
dragonlaurel
Improvising a more SS life
Thanks for the info. Shearing doesn't sound too bad. I did a temp job before grooming animals for a little while. I was okay with those (smaller) clippers, and nobody got hurt. The dogs got squirmy sometimes, but sheep seem to behave pretty well on the seats.
Our seasons run pretty different here. Do you wait till the last frost passes before shearing, or just until there are no more hard freezes coming?
I expect to make some mistakes, but whatever I can learn now will be handy.
Plus reading is free or cheap and it helps me feel a little closer to the goal. I want 10-20 acres- partially wooded, and to build up to about a dozen sheep, 5 or 6 Nubian goats, a couple livestock dogs, some guineas for ticks, and 20-50 chickens. I'd like to keep about 20 layers year round then let broodies raise chicks and sell them as started pullets or POL. Their value goes up pretty fast, and Mama hens do it cheaper and better.
I'm interested in Gulf Coast Native sheep or Tunis possibly. They aren't fancy wool, but they are both able to handle heat and are parasite resistant. The other breed that appeals to me is California Red. It's a cross of Barbados with Tunis.
I was thinking about rotating goats first, then chickens, then sheep since the goats don't eat grass as low and the chickens reduce parasite loads. Would rotating that way help? I could add some geese or ducks to reduce snails too.
Our seasons run pretty different here. Do you wait till the last frost passes before shearing, or just until there are no more hard freezes coming?
I expect to make some mistakes, but whatever I can learn now will be handy.
Plus reading is free or cheap and it helps me feel a little closer to the goal. I want 10-20 acres- partially wooded, and to build up to about a dozen sheep, 5 or 6 Nubian goats, a couple livestock dogs, some guineas for ticks, and 20-50 chickens. I'd like to keep about 20 layers year round then let broodies raise chicks and sell them as started pullets or POL. Their value goes up pretty fast, and Mama hens do it cheaper and better. I'm interested in Gulf Coast Native sheep or Tunis possibly. They aren't fancy wool, but they are both able to handle heat and are parasite resistant. The other breed that appeals to me is California Red. It's a cross of Barbados with Tunis.
I was thinking about rotating goats first, then chickens, then sheep since the goats don't eat grass as low and the chickens reduce parasite loads. Would rotating that way help? I could add some geese or ducks to reduce snails too.
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The Old Ram-Australia
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G'day ,hope your weekend is going well.
So yesterday(Sun) was another day of spraying,put out about 8gallons of mix,we have a curse of a weed its called Serrated Tussock,It has no value as stock feed and grows so large that it crowds out all other plants,I spray it twice a year to try and keep it under control,but it comes in as seed on the wind and can travel 30KMs....We spot spray with a back-pack that holds about 3 gallons( I don't agree with boom-spraying to kills everything)....The dogs had another lesson on staying in the trailer(Jack was a lot better today,only had to tell him a couple of times ),then I let them off to go and chase rabbits and to find some bones to chew......The farm work will have to take a back seat for a while as we are finally going to "pave"the conservatory attached to the house.
Q & A:..DL:I smiled to myself when you said that you did not think sheep are to hard to handle,as an exercise ,if you know a "sheepie"ask if you can have a go at handling a sheep "without" a handpiece through the steps of getting the fleece off,(you may get quite a surprise)........Would you be interested in doing a little "research"into the project?..That is quite a large project and a large "spread" of livestock,if I were to pose you some questions ,you could think about them and come back with some observations...What do you think????
THE CHAT:What sort of livestock??Everybody has there own favorite,select species first,then a breed that fits "your"environment.It can be "soul destroying" to try to bend "nature"to make it produce something that the country you have is incapable of doing,either that or the cost of production is so great that you go "bankrupt"...Consider am I just trying to "feed" the family or am I trying to feed the world and scale your production to that end.
So, enough for today ,we hope to see you all back again next time,regards,............................T.O.R..........................
So yesterday(Sun) was another day of spraying,put out about 8gallons of mix,we have a curse of a weed its called Serrated Tussock,It has no value as stock feed and grows so large that it crowds out all other plants,I spray it twice a year to try and keep it under control,but it comes in as seed on the wind and can travel 30KMs....We spot spray with a back-pack that holds about 3 gallons( I don't agree with boom-spraying to kills everything)....The dogs had another lesson on staying in the trailer(Jack was a lot better today,only had to tell him a couple of times ),then I let them off to go and chase rabbits and to find some bones to chew......The farm work will have to take a back seat for a while as we are finally going to "pave"the conservatory attached to the house.
Q & A:..DL:I smiled to myself when you said that you did not think sheep are to hard to handle,as an exercise ,if you know a "sheepie"ask if you can have a go at handling a sheep "without" a handpiece through the steps of getting the fleece off,(you may get quite a surprise)........Would you be interested in doing a little "research"into the project?..That is quite a large project and a large "spread" of livestock,if I were to pose you some questions ,you could think about them and come back with some observations...What do you think????
THE CHAT:What sort of livestock??Everybody has there own favorite,select species first,then a breed that fits "your"environment.It can be "soul destroying" to try to bend "nature"to make it produce something that the country you have is incapable of doing,either that or the cost of production is so great that you go "bankrupt"...Consider am I just trying to "feed" the family or am I trying to feed the world and scale your production to that end.
So, enough for today ,we hope to see you all back again next time,regards,............................T.O.R..........................
dragonlaurel
Improvising a more SS life
" I smiled to myself when you said that you did not think sheep are to hard to handle,as an exercise ,if you know a "sheepie"ask if you can have a go at handling a sheep "without" a handpiece through the steps of getting the fleece off,(you may get quite a surprise)........Would you be interested in doing a little "research"into the project?..That is quite a large project and a large "spread" of livestock,if I were to pose you some questions ,you could think about them and come back with some observations...What do you think???? "
Pretty sure I'd want help, but they still might behave better than some of the spoiled frou-frou dogs I'd met. Plus, nobody expects you to paint a sheep's toenails. I'd rather smell manure than nail polish.
Wish there was somebody local with sheep that would let me practice. I'm a townie at the moment though- so zoning doesn't allow them.
About the questions- ask away ... I'm curious.
Pretty sure I'd want help, but they still might behave better than some of the spoiled frou-frou dogs I'd met. Plus, nobody expects you to paint a sheep's toenails. I'd rather smell manure than nail polish.
Wish there was somebody local with sheep that would let me practice. I'm a townie at the moment though- so zoning doesn't allow them.
About the questions- ask away ... I'm curious.
