ADVENTURE'S DOWNUNDER OR FARMING IN PARADISE:An Old Rams view.

[dragonlaurel]

Hope your roadwork goes smoothly.
You have a group of rams that don't usually stay with their girls. How well do they normally keep the peace with each other? Is the aggression mostly in breeding season, or fairly year round?
I will be seeing some of the spinners in the next few weeks. I'll ask around about what they would want. They are hobby spinners, so I wouldn't expect a huge business in it. Here's more info more on Tunis wool:
" Tunis wool is a lustrous 24 to 30 microns, long-stapled 4 to 6 inches that has found favor in many fiber and textile enterprises. Ewes typically shear a fleece weighing 6 to 9 pounds of this 3/8th's blood, 56 to 58 spinning count wool. " quoted from http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/sheep/tunis/index.htm

Dorsets seem like a good breed. Year round breeding is a nice plus. How are they with heat? Our summer days typically go into the 90's and some days end up over 100 degrees (38-39 C) and humid.

Hot Springs has a lot of winter residents and spring (racing) tourists. The spring water here is really great. If you ever see the brand "Mountain Valley Spring Water", it's bottled nearby. We have plenty of restaurants, but lamb meat is quite expensive here. Places with strong immigrant communities are still a good market for it. Hubby would like to have lamb for the freezer, but they might have to be sent out for processing. His health isn't great and I'm too much of a softie. He could do the job fine on smaller animals.

We've been living off one income and just getting by. This apt is cheap, but it just doesn't fit. Woods, sunshine and fresh air are necessary for me. I need to be working, to save $ for land. Working an off farm job is likely too, especially in the beginning.

About family- Most of them are long distance but might want to visit. Hubby needs easy driving distance from town for appts. Land that close in may have animal restrictions, and costs more per acre, so huge acreage is not likely to happen. They also look more closely at building plans and construction. If it seems unusual, the red tape multiplies.

Thanks for help going over the farm plans. It's good to have somebody that's been there giving ideas and helping you find the right questions.
Totally unimproved, remote land around here starts about $ 3000. per acre. "Improved land" prices go up fast. Ponds or year round creeks raise it even more. Our timber companies frequently sell off land that they logged 10-15 years before. You usually get good access to the property, a rough road on it, and lots of small trees for close to 5,000 per acre in big parcels. Great deals sometimes.

-Required features for my farm? hmmmm...

well or other drinkable water on property
Build-able spot (grassy or wooded hill okay) with low risk of flooding, rock slides, and similar hazards.
Lenient building & use restrictions- I want to build my own Cob, passive solar home.
semi-wooded for windbreak, wildlife, lumber, and firewood
some open areas for pasture, garden/orchard
grasses/forage (weeds) are healthy enough to show the soil should be fine.
enough road frontage for an easy to access driveway.
minimum of 5 acres
good solar exposure for the home site

Wanted features:
prefer 10-20 acres- mixed between woods and open land
any sturdy building to shelter us or animals. I would live in a tent or shed for a while to get decent land.
any sturdy fencing
rolling terrain - cheaper, pretty view, and good for micro-climates
pond or creek onsite with safe water
Easy drive (25 miles or less) from town for milk customers.
good neighbors or at least not nasty ones

Here's a few listings that looked promising:
- Oden 9.29 acres $ 35,400. wooded, creek, http://www.landsofarkansas.com/arkansas/?detail=&inv_id=976883
-Story, Ar - 17 acres - $ 60,000. or 5-6 acres- $3500. each, unrestricted, "no well or septic" , http://www.landsofarkansas.com/arkansas/?detail=&inv_id=545016
was perc test done?, did anyone try to drill a well before?
-Story, Ar- 20 acres- $ 58,500, Hwy 27&298, ttp://www.landsofarkansas.com/arkansas/?detail=&inv_id=545035
-Malvern 29.73 acres $ 75,901. sloping land, Hwy frontage, Electric & water to property, http://www.weichert.com/34939903/
-Hensley, Saline County on Oak Rd. 5 acre - 33,000 wooded, no minerals http://www.landwatch.com/Saline-County-Arkansas-Land-for-sale/pid/164673660 (Are there no minerals, or does somebody else own "rights" and could damage the land getting them?) I included that one to make people think if they are in a possible mining area.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day DL,have a look at the forum Fin and Management-Green Acres,by tortise,there is a whole lot of stuff you should have a look at.

journal will resume later.....DL,and I will spend so time thinking about reply............................................regards,T.O.R...............

 

[dragonlaurel]

Is this the right one?
http://www.finbin.umn.edu/CropEnterpriseAnalysis/Default.aspx

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

OH DL,I'm sorry I may have confused you..............

So we are on SS click index,on frugal living, click on fin man and budgeting,click on Green Acres by Tortoise and have a look at the advice offered.............................

So to the journal,g'day gang,(what's been happening?)Monday was a "shocker",it got up to about 10C along with the coldest of winds(MILK).The only time I ventured out was to feed the dogs.
Tuesday was a little better and I did some more on the Conservatory,got in two loads of sand,looks like we need about 4 more......

It's the "bit" on the back of the house.(sorry for the confusion)

Took the "dogs" and moved 3"mobs' of sheep to new grazing (that was quite enough for one day.LOL)
Wednesday(today)We caught up with some people for lunch,who all did a course with us a few years ago,exchanged "livestock stories"and had a real good time ,such a nice break from the farm for a day...We are going to do it again in Oct.

I have a question for the forum on household water storage,is ther a reason that you do not store rainwater in tanks attached to the house/shed?

These two tanks hold 7000 gals each and we have a 2000 gal one for the veg garden/trees.

Q & A:..DL.Generally speaking the rams are quite Ok as a group,but as the breeding season approaches we make sure there is an empty paddock between them and any ewe's(mainly to keep the "girls" in line.LOL)

DLs Project:I recall that "sheep" were going to be your main large stock.How many lambs would you eat in a year?I think you said about 10 ewes,say14 lambs,half ewes,retain 50%.So you have about 10 lambs to eat!....You also said about some Nub Goats,why?..House milk,cheese,etc...how much milk do you consume now?....You also spoke of chickens (about 50 I think),but you also said that there are '000s of chickens in the area.How about Geese for Home-made Pate,or just sell the "livers" and goose meat to the local restaurants?......If there are no sheep people close I would think that the "local spinners" would jump at the chance to get "fresh shorn wool".(when we had the Black and Coloureds,they used to come to the farm and pick out the sheep they liked and I would "shear "it for them on the spot).
You must also consider just "how" much time you will have ,if you are working a job as well!...............Time to remove the "rose-coloured glasses"..Cob building from memory is like rammed earth,using "slip-forms",its hard and its time consuming!(remember hubby's health,and your own)I'm sure there are other solar passive options.(at some point soon I guess we will CHAT about our house).Live in a "tent",you have got those "glasses "on again(LOL).Theres a local saying"Good fences make good neighbors"
With the land thing "if its cheap" theres a reason.Saline Country would ring alarm bells with me straightaway...The wooded creek looks like what it says woods and creek,I doubt it would feed a rabbit....The pick was the 17 acs at Story IMO.If you were ready NOW I would have a look at it(or have a look anyway)Questions:Access from road,Flooding, permission to build,access to power and how much to connect?Is any of the land woods?How close to Nat Park,ie;bears and other critters that will eat your stock?....Thats probably enough for you to think about for one night...................

THE CHAT:Grazing management.We will return to this subject ,but I have to modify a map so I can explain how it works (for us)

Well Gang thats about your lot for tonight,hope you have enjoyed your visit and you will call back again.But remember its a two way thing,so speak up!best wishes...................T.O.R.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day gang,hope everybody is OK,we saw the wind storms you have been having on the evening news.

So, Thursday was spent at our local farm supply stores "trade day"its a once a year day when many of the store suppliers come to town and offer "good deals" on their goods.Armed with my list we went to town about 10.30am.Firstly were "Drenches"I needed a "narrow spectrum",Barbers Pole,as I had been using a "broad spectrum" one and after last Springs experience I needed to change drug type.I also wanted to get a "mectin" with a Tape Worm control for the weaner lambs first drench,it appears that Tape in older sheep pose no problem ,but i am sure that in just weaned lambs are effected when you add "weaning stress".(anyway we will see)....High on the list was a new "grass trimmer" for Jen,she has a 4stroke Honda,but finds it a bit heavy so she wanted a lighter 2 stroke one,anyway she picked out a Stihl one and we "haggled" a deal........The next thing was a "guy" with a Special on dry dog food(a working dog one with 21% protein)for 89c a kg, BARGAIN,took 6 bags...That was all we needed and after having a "chat with some friends over some "free" lunch we headed home.It was still early so I got 2 trailer loads of sand for the "paving job".

Friday was "retail therapy",we left just after sunrise and it was like it had "snowed" down on the flats(I'd say it was about -6C).

THE CHAT:..Grazing Management.........Well I did the job on the photo

Briefly this is what you have,the red lines are fences,the blue lines are proposed new fences.The area is 120acs,the arrows are the direction of the slopes.the basis of the concept is to never graze the a joining paddock on the down slope "SAY,D following A".
So starting with Ha then G,C,D,E,F,A,B and H.(does that make sense?)We try to work on 7day stay (depending on the conditions at the time)in each paddock,with sufficient stock to "mow ' down the pasture evenly,but without damage to the total ground-cover.

The above is a 9 paddock rotation(63 days),but we have more than this so the rest between grazing's is longer.we plan all new fencing on land-form and try to separate flat from rising ground

This is the fence we use for all new fences,with the addition of one electric off-set, I think it would be suitable for goats as well.Because of wildlife impacts(kangaroo's)we run the wires through the "star posts"so any impact is taken by the "end assembly's",not the adjacent steel post and we use a running tension of about 180kgs per meter.

Well I thinks that enough for this evening,happy to answer any questions,best wishes......................T.O.R......................

 

[freemotion]

The walls and flowers around your water tanks are quite attractive!

I think the reason most of us here in the US don't store large amounts of water is that in most areas there is water and rainfall available year-round, so water is not an issue. Many use smaller tanks or even barrels to collect roof run-off to water gardens, but most have a well or city water (ick, that is what I have) for the household water and for the farm animals.

 

[dragonlaurel]

Thanks for pointing out those threads. There's a project I need to finish up this week, so I may not get all the reading done right away.

Does the conservatory provide heat for the house too? It looks like it would help in the winter. Some people here are used to saving rainwater in cisterns or other tanks and it's becoming more popular. Those are much bigger than the tanks I'm used to seeing, but it makes sense with all your livestock.

Just saw your post with your rotation pic. Thanks for posting it.

Q & A
How many lambs would you eat in a year?I think you said about 10 ewes,say14 lambs,half ewes,retain 50%.So you have about 10 lambs to eat!.

-I had a laugh, because it's only two of us and I'm vegetarian, so 10 lambs for the freezer sounds like a lot! Hubby would claim some for the freezer but not sure how many. I really want the wool, mowing, and garden fertilizer. I also read that Tunis ewes were milked sometimes and that it's great for making cheeses.

You also said about some Nub Goats,why?..House milk, cheese, etc... how much milk do you consume now?....

- Nubians are well suited to the heat here and make rich milk. We eat lots of cheese and yogurt and want to make our own. I also want the animals to eat pasture stuff like nature intended.
-Raw milk sells for 2x the price of grocery store milk and draws customers to the farm, cause Arkansas laws only allow raw milk sales at the originating farm.
- Many babies can't drink the grocery store (pasteurized, homogenized) cows milk. Docs tell them use soy formula or goats milk. A happy thriving baby makes the Mom a happy, repeat customer.
- I will be tending the animals usually, and really like goats.

You also spoke of chickens (about 50 I think),but you also said that there are '000s of chickens in the area.

- Arkansas has plenty of huge factory laying houses but I want eggs from chickens that forage and eat plants and bugs and get exercise and sunshine. "Free range eggs" cost an arm and a leg in local stores. I'd like to start with 10 or so layers to supply us and some spare eggs while building customers.

How about Geese for Home-made Pate,or just sell the "livers" and goose meat to the local restaurants?...
- Geese are mostly a holiday meat here unless somebody hunts or raises it. I thought about having some geese for barnyard security and eating bugs. Hubby would probably want some for the freezer. Most local restaurants don't serve foie gras, cause it attracted protestors and that bothered the customers= bad for business.

If there are no sheep people close I would think that the "local spinners" would jump at the chance to get "fresh shorn wool". (when we had the Black and Coloureds, they used to come to the farm and pick out the sheep they liked and I would "shear "it for them on the spot).
- I love that idea.

You must also consider just "how" much time you will have ,if you are working a job as well!

- Yeah. Some of the stuff I want to do will save me time and be easier in the long run. It will be a pasture based system, using perennial and native grasses.
Rainwater will go from the roof lines into the water tank (on a platform) then gravity fed to the house. A cistern and small pump would be another option. Try to arrange things so whatever is left over from one section is used in the ones nearby. Like penning
chickens in a just harvested spot so they clean up the crop residues, bugs, and add fertilizer to the plot for the next spring.

I am in good health and have always wanted to build my home. Hubby's health isn't good, but I could ask him to do some smaller projects that would be helpful. I was not joking about the tent. I wore out my old tent. Camping while building would be a small price to pay. My goal is to make the home I can grow old in someday.

Cob building is most similar to adobe, except you don't have to shape and dry bricks first. You mix the clay, sand, chopped straw and water then pile up lumps of the material and compress it some. Walking on it is enough pressure. The walls are a foot thick or more, which gives great thermal mass. To protect it in this climate, you give it a stone foundation, and make a wide porch roof to direct water away from the walls. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cob_(material)

The Story property was really nice but that area is further away than I really wanted. Except for the price, the Malvern one was my favorite. I put the wrong link for it. http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Hwy-270-Bypass_Malvern_AR_72104_M75848-94475

I'll be offline for a couple days. Have a good weekend!
fixed typo

 

[~gd]

About USA poultry T.O.R., There are probably a million chickens raised within a 5 mile radius from my house but they produce 0 eggs! The chicks are trucked in from the next county and they spend from 9-12 weeks in "grow out Houses" during this time they never see the sun and only see humans that check and remove deaders. The humans are dressed in moon suits and change between houses (biosecurity, these birds have very little immunity) feed and water is on automatic systems. Finally the big day (night actually) comes and they are loaded in cages on open trucks there are fans to carry off the body heat of these birds as they are loaded. The trucks try to avoid stops except in special rest areas where fans and misters are used to disperse body heat otherwise they arrive at the slaughter house dead and half cooked. They MUST be alive when they arrive or they cannot be used as human food. They come out wrapped in cello packs refrigerated or as frozen parts. There is one area in the country where ducks are produced but that is the wet and cooler north.
The egg producers use a similar factory system but the cages are bigger and the floors are slanted so the eggs will roll out (no nests). The hens are kept until egg production declines and then they are sold as 'spent hens' they are older, tougher, and have more flavor. The wings are about the only part that reaches the US market (chicken wings are very popular as a snack food, most bars (pubs) serve them @ about 2/$ and the supply is short. The hen wings are tender because they are never used and larger than those on meat birds and they have more taste. The rest of the hens are sold for export usually as parts or mechanically deboned for pet food, and other manufactured foods.
Turkeys are done much the same ways except the broad breasted birds can no longer naturally breed so are bred by man using AI. The ones that end up on our tables are timed for the market peak in Nov and Dec and are usually very young hens. The true meat birds are Huge and are used for Cold Cuts and other processed meats, I can't think of a pork product other than ribs that don't have a turkey substitute. (Low fat you know)
Geese have managed to escape the system because they were never as popular as chickens and turkeys being dark meat and fatty, they dont do well in close confinement being mainly grazing birds and slow to reach full size. Eating goose pate is looked upon as a sin because of the traditional inhumane method of production. In fact the whole goose market has pretty much been captured by a cross bred duck. The Muscovy a large native non migrating duck is crossed with the Pekin to produce a superior meat and a big liver for a duck. This is the producer of the pate you will find in US restaurants unless they specify goose and it is the duck used for all but the classical Chinese dishes. Because goose is not produced in factory farms it is rare and expensive, priced right off most menus.
Sorry I didnt mean to write a book, but you questioned why keep some chickens and why not sell geese or livers to restaurants. ~gd

 

[TanksHill]

I would love to have a water tank for my gardens and orchard. That would require rain, and we don't get very much of that here.

I have priced the cost of different size tanks, unfortunately buying the water is more cost effective at this point.

Maybe if I could get some free barrels, but then there is still the cost of he rain gutters.

One more project to add to the list.

Great pictures, thanks for sharing.

g

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day all,thanks for taking the time to stop by,I'm sure you will enjoy your stay as the last post produced some interesting replies.

We awoke this morning to another huge "frost".I did not even venture out until 10 am.I went and got another load of sand and then picked up the dogs and went to check the sheep,checked and filled their "mix"containers.....All seemed well with the sheep so get another load of sand(only one more to go).

Q & A:Water Tanks.Down here as soon as you are out of town by even a little bit you have to collect your own water,(min 10000gal)if you are out in the "bush" you must also have 5000 gal stored to fight a "bushfire".....The cost of "guttering"is not great and the tanks cost about 50c per gallon of water stored..Our two tanks(when full) would supply our house(everything,showers,toilets and cooking)for about 9months without any rainfall...The garden tank catches off of our shed and we have a 1000gal tank on a shed near the shearing shed.....Our water is so clean and pure(we built in our own filter system to keep out the leaves and stuff),when you compare it to "town water"with its chlorine and stuff you cannot even make a "decent cup of tea" from it.....

~GD:I am" SO" glad to see you back,I hope you saw and accepted my apology for the spelling thing...Please do not worry about the length of your posts,as I respect you depth of knowledge and your opinions on everything to do with "waterfowl".We also have farm factory's for both meat/egg production and much of our "duck meat" is produced this way.I was not aware of how geese were farmed for their liver,(thats why I'm a sheep man and you are a waterfowl expert.)but I was using them as an example of thinking "outside the box"to produce something that commander-ed a premium price,but was uncommon for the area.......DL's project is interesting in that they wish to take on three livestock projects ,build a house ,work a full-time job and build a "farm business" all at the same time.....I look forward to you input and comments into the future.

DL:YES,the conserver-try does generate some warmth early in the AM.We have double "French doors" behind it and when you open them the warmth rushes into the house...All of our stock-water is supplied by "dams"(ponds),but we do have a water-line which I use to fill troughs in some of our paddocks,from a dam which is high up the slope and is gravity fed....On the question of the lambs,I was trying to get you to think about how many you would have to "sell" and what sort of income that would produce...If you want "sheep's milk cheese" ,you may be better off with "say"two East Friesian ewe's and sell their lambs for meat...If your focus is the "wool"why not the bulk of your flock be Corridales(naturally colored),if you mid Spring shear the heat should not be a problem as you are aiming for some "wooded areas",use a "meat bred sire"to produce your lambs,maybe retain some ewe lambs that show good wool character, along with improved meat and milk.....To get the best production from your goats I think you may have to invest in some "protein" for them,don't forget milking is morning and night and once you have "customers that rely on you ,supply is usually 12 months of the year.(there are some VERY good goat producers on this forum,I'm sure if you ask they will advise you on the best path to take)......I still have my doubts about the "tent thing"its all very well on "holidays",but to come home each night after work ,feed the stock and cook dinner the "novelty "would wear off pretty fast I'm sure...........This Cob house ,are the walls load-bearing?..Is the house on a"slab" or concrete footings?..If the latter what is the floor constructed of?

TanksHill:We average about 30ins of rain in a year,but during the drought we got much less than this.(when we get to the house I must remember to to talk about this point further).When you buy water is it just potable town water?

Free:HI, haven't heard from you for "ages",thank you for the "nice"comments,after I built that wall I got a book from the library and the next one was "heaps" better(practice makes perfect:).

I think on this note we should end this entry,so till next time you drop by for a chat,best wishes from,.........................T.O.R..................