An amazing quote.

[patandchickens]

It seems to me that it depends a WHOLE lot on whether better estimates are AVAILABLE.

They may not be.

If they're not, I don't think there is much room for criticism.


Pat

 

[Homesteadmom]

What we need is for the gov't to get their nose out of it & let it ride it's course out. Everything FDR did wiht his "New Deal" sent us into the GD. Now everything Obama is doing is heading us the same direction. Which is really what they want to happen so they can get the new global monetary system started. Plus this way they keep us opressed & really start some class wars in this country. I hate to see people lossing their retirement(my parents sure are & they are retired). But it just needs to go it's own way & we pick ourselves up by the boot straps & move us forward & thru it. Notice I said we-meaning "we the people", not the gov't.

 

[Tallman]

It seems to me that it depends a WHOLE lot on whether better estimates are AVAILABLE.

They may not be.

If they're not, I don't think there is much room for criticism.


Pat

True - but does that mean that we start throwing our taxpayer dollars in just any direction? I don't think that good decisions can be made knowing that our information contains "significant margins of error."

 

[Tallman]

What we need is for the gov't to get their nose out of it & let it ride it's course out. Everything FDR did wiht his "New Deal" sent us into the GD. Now everything Obama is doing is heading us the same direction. Which is really what they want to happen so they can get the new global monetary system started. Plus this way they keep us opressed & really start some class wars in this country. I hate to see people lossing their retirement(my parents sure are & they are retired). But it just needs to go it's own way & we pick ourselves up by the boot straps & move us forward & thru it. Notice I said we-meaning "we the people", not the gov't.

Homesteadmom I feel the same way, but that's not the course that has been set for us. Washington D.C. is filled with those who believe in the Keynesian thought. I think that we need to try to figure out where this is headed and try to protect ourselves and our loved ones as best we can. I have read that every fiat money system that has ever been tried has ended in failure. Those in power like a fiat money system because they can use it in order to push an agenda or to stay in power. Why should we think that our system would be any different?

 

[Homesteadmom]

What we need is for the gov't to get their nose out of it & let it ride it's course out. Everything FDR did wiht his "New Deal" sent us into the GD. Now everything Obama is doing is heading us the same direction. Which is really what they want to happen so they can get the new global monetary system started. Plus this way they keep us opressed & really start some class wars in this country. I hate to see people lossing their retirement(my parents sure are & they are retired). But it just needs to go it's own way & we pick ourselves up by the boot straps & move us forward & thru it. Notice I said we-meaning "we the people", not the gov't.

Homesteadmom I feel the same way, but that's not the course that has been set for us. Washington D.C. is filled with those who believe in the Keynesian thought. I think that we need to try to figure out where this is headed and try to protect ourselves and our loved ones as best we can. I have read that every fiat money system that has ever been tried has ended in failure. Those in power like a fiat money system because they can use it in order to push an agenda or to stay in power. Why should we think that our system would be any different?

What is amazing to me is they(the ones in Washington) can't see & learn from history. I mean it's obvious what FDR only hurt the country & sent it spiraling downward faster, so why would we want to try the same thing, while throwing in $200k for tatoo removal for gang members? Or $1.8m to study swine odor in Iowa. No brainer there hogs stink when they poop as do chickens, as do cattle, as do humans!! Oh boy what is this world(country) coming to?

 

[patandchickens]

It seems to me that it depends a WHOLE lot on whether better estimates are AVAILABLE.

They may not be.

If they're not, I don't think there is much room for criticism.


Pat

True - but does that mean that we start throwing our taxpayer dollars in just any direction? I don't think that good decisions can be made knowing that our information contains "significant margins of error."

So perhaps you would rather they just do nothing... which is fine... but a reasonable argument can also be made that it would be a good idea to do at least SOMEthing (not necessarily what they're actually doing, mind you, but not just sitting there one one's hands going la-la-la-la-la).

People make decisions on estimates containing significant margins of error ALL THE TIME in real life. Heck, there are significant margins of error in weather forecasting but you still make decisions about what to do next weekend that take the forecast into account; unless you don't invest at all, you are certainly basing your decisions on stuff with significant margins of error; even just deciding what to plant in the garden to give you enough food for the next year contains significant margins of error. But that doesn't mean that we don't go ahead and MAKE those decisions anyhow, and act on them.


Pat

 

[Tallman]

What is amazing to me is they(the ones in Washington) can't see & learn from history. I mean it's obvious what FDR only hurt the country & sent it spiraling downward faster, so why would we want to try the same thing, while throwing in $200k for tatoo removal for gang members? Or $1.8m to study swine odor in Iowa. No brainer there hogs stink when they poop as do chickens, as do cattle, as do humans!! Oh boy what is this world(country) coming to?

Me thinks that the whole thing is about getting reelected.

You and I think that our officials should do what is best for the country; however, those in power today just do what is needed to stay in power. So it's the "what can we give them to stay in power" attitude, and the voting block is going for it more and more.

 

[Homesteadmom]

What is amazing to me is they(the ones in Washington) can't see & learn from history. I mean it's obvious what FDR only hurt the country & sent it spiraling downward faster, so why would we want to try the same thing, while throwing in $200k for tatoo removal for gang members? Or $1.8m to study swine odor in Iowa. No brainer there hogs stink when they poop as do chickens, as do cattle, as do humans!! Oh boy what is this world(country) coming to?

Me thinks that the whole thing is about getting reelected.

You and I think that our officials should do what is best for the country; however, those in power today just do what is needed to stay in power. So it's the "what can we give them to stay in power" attitude, and the voting block is going for it more and more.

You are right. All they care about anymore is staying in power, who cares about the little people!

 

[Tallman]

It seems to me that it depends a WHOLE lot on whether better estimates are AVAILABLE.

They may not be.

If they're not, I don't think there is much room for criticism.


Pat

True - but does that mean that we start throwing our taxpayer dollars in just any direction? I don't think that good decisions can be made knowing that our information contains "significant margins of error."

So perhaps you would rather they just do nothing... which is fine... but a reasonable argument can also be made that it would be a good idea to do at least SOMEthing (not necessarily what they're actually doing, mind you, but not just sitting there one one's hands going la-la-la-la-la).

People make decisions on estimates containing significant margins of error ALL THE TIME in real life. Heck, there are significant margins of error in weather forecasting but you still make decisions about what to do next weekend that take the forecast into account; unless you don't invest at all, you are certainly basing your decisions on stuff with significant margins of error; even just deciding what to plant in the garden to give you enough food for the next year contains significant margins of error. But that doesn't mean that we don't go ahead and MAKE those decisions anyhow, and act on them.


Pat

If we are going to do SOMEthing as you mention above, I would suggest that we do like Homesteadmom wrote about, and that is to learn from past mistakes.

There has never been a country borrow itself into prosperity, nor has it been done by taxation. So - since the information that is being used has a significant margin of error, I would suggest we just learn from history and make decisions accordingly.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

I don't know that it has ever been agreed that the New Deal caused the Great Depression. Seems to me that it was greed and industrial monopolies that caused the Great Depression.

Now, that said, I don't think we should be stimulating the economy frivolously. I can see how investing in our country's future could be a good thing IF the money is directed intellegently and not based upon past artifacts of the economy, as we knew it. I think there should be incentives for everyone to start growing more of their own food and getting off the grid, plus mass transit development, and funding for greener technologies, but me, I'm just a dreamer!

What are our priorities as a country? Do we want to be using our military in order to secure world resources to support the life styles we have now, or do we want to live peacefully within our means? I think this is the fundamental question, and the way the money is spent will probably be an indicator of our agenda.

I like the idea of giving tax credits for higher education, but I think it is too late. I think we'd be better off developing an educational system based upon merit solely. Let's find the brightest students and fund them as far as they want to go, but I think average students would be better off developing career based skills (repair, construction, etc.) It seems to me that there are a lot of people right now over-educated for the work that is available.