An amazing quote.

[patandchickens]

Major applause for everything DrakeMaiden said


Pat

 

[annmarie]

I don't know that it has ever been agreed that the New Deal caused the Great Depression.

It didn't. The worst of the Great Depression occured prior to Roosevelt taking office. That argument has as much merit as saying that World War II caused World War I.

 

[inchworm]

The general assertion is not that FDR's policies caused the Depression. The assertion is that FRD's policies deepened the Depression. There are several studies that indicate that the rest of the world pulled out of the Depression before the US did, hence the speculation that US policies made the US Depression worse or made it harder for the enconmy to recover.

Numerous people from various walks of life have studied the Depression, but I think noone yet really fully understands what caused it.

 

[annmarie]

And maybe it did prolong the depression, but that possible extra year or two brought the country out of the depression a better country, with policies that we still benefit from today, and ensured that the conditions that led to the depression in the first place (esp. lack of corporate regulation) were no longer in existence. It was a choice between the quick and easy, or the right way. The right way sometimes takes a little longer.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

There is no way to prove one way or the other, because no one knows what would have happened without the New Deal. I keep hearing people say the New Deal made things worse, but how exactly would you prove that? Were we on a straight trajectory down and then fell off a cliff after the New Deal or was it up and down, up and down, up and down, just down further on every downturn? Does someone have some statistics?

Annmarie points out that the New Deal helped people, even if it didn't necessarily help the bottom line . . . so what are we more interested in, the bottom line or the quality of life of the citizenry?

 

[inchworm]

I couldn't agree more.

My only question is -- who gets to decide? Who gets to decide what is in everbody else's best interest? And obviously, what is in one person's best interest is often directly to the detriment of someone else's quality of life. It is a sticky situation that was evident at the first meeting of the first Continental Congress. It has been dealt with for over 200 years in the spirit of compromise. The system stinks, but I have yet to see a better one. It is the compromise that has made this nation strong. Giving too much power to one party or to one branch of government undermines the security of us all.

What was the OP about again??

 

[DrakeMaiden]

It seems like over the course of history, our country has been back and forth in terms of who has had the power. It may have started with the ideal of the people having the power, but we keep ending up with consolidation of power by wealthy individuals and corporations, which in my opinion has led to economic failure (past and present). Isn't it interesting that we are back to this depressionary state of the economy after about the average human life span? It seems to me like mistakes have been repeated.

Well, it also seems to me that the nation would be at it's strongest if the average people are at their strongest and most SS (gee, I wonder if I'm biased in this opinion). I don't mean materially wealthy. I mean that the people need to be able to provide for their own needs. How is it that some people are working 2 or 3 jobs just to make ends meet? This is insane. We can follow shrewd economical principles, but at the end of the day we are human beings and there needs to be some compassion and fairness.

I really am amazed at what big corporations can get away with that the little people would get punished for by the full extent of the law. I am shocked by the disparity of pay between CEOs and their laborers. Labor is not valued by our society, it seems. If it were, it would certainly pay better. And so WHY do you think so many destitute would rather qualify for welfare or just fade out of society and reside on the street? There is no pride in a hard day's work anymore.

Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant.

 

[On Our own]

I don't know that it has ever been agreed that the New Deal caused the Great Depression. Seems to me that it was greed and industrial monopolies that caused the Great Depression.

Now, that said, I don't think we should be stimulating the economy frivolously. I can see how investing in our country's future could be a good thing IF the money is directed intellegently and not based upon past artifacts of the economy, as we knew it. I think there should be incentives for everyone to start growing more of their own food and getting off the grid, plus mass transit development, and funding for greener technologies, but me, I'm just a dreamer!

What are our priorities as a country? Do we want to be using our military in order to secure world resources to support the life styles we have now, or do we want to live peacefully within our means? I think this is the fundamental question, and the way the money is spent will probably be an indicator of our agenda.

I like the idea of giving tax credits for higher education, but I think it is too late. I think we'd be better off developing an educational system based upon merit solely. Let's find the brightest students and fund them as far as they want to go, but I think average students would be better off developing career based skills (repair, construction, etc.) It seems to me that there are a lot of people right now over-educated for the work that is available.

I will wholeheartedly second this!

Read "A Traitor to His Class" about FDR and you'll hear how the wealthy of the time thought of him and tried very hard to stop him. One would think after all this time people would be clear about who did what, but history is written by those in power.

Economics is still a crap shoot.

I highly recommend Chris Martenson's crash course. Edited to add link: http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

 

[Big Daddy]

What we need is for the gov't to get their nose out of it & let it ride it's course out. Everything FDR did wiht his "New Deal" sent us into the GD. Now everything Obama is doing is heading us the same direction. Which is really what they want to happen so they can get the new global monetary system started. Plus this way they keep us opressed & really start some class wars in this country. I hate to see people lossing their retirement(my parents sure are & they are retired). But it just needs to go it's own way & we pick ourselves up by the boot straps & move us forward & thru it. Notice I said we-meaning "we the people", not the gov't.

Why does the right wing insist on rewriting history? The GD was in progress when FDR took over. FDR got the nation back on the road to recovery with his work programs. The 2nd WW finished the job. So far we the people aren't doing such a great job. Too many issues hit at one time. This recession isn't going to end by itself like the one in the early 80's.

 

[Homesteadmom]

What we need is for the gov't to get their nose out of it & let it ride it's course out. Everything FDR did wiht his "New Deal" sent us into the GD. Now everything Obama is doing is heading us the same direction. Which is really what they want to happen so they can get the new global monetary system started. Plus this way they keep us opressed & really start some class wars in this country. I hate to see people lossing their retirement(my parents sure are & they are retired). But it just needs to go it's own way & we pick ourselves up by the boot straps & move us forward & thru it. Notice I said we-meaning "we the people", not the gov't.

Why does the right wing insist on rewriting history? The GD was in progress when FDR took over. FDR got the nation back on the road to recovery with his work programs. The 2nd WW finished the job. So far we the people aren't doing such a great job. Too many issues hit at one time. This recession isn't going to end by itself like the one in the early 80's.

I am not rewriting history. I have read many things & listened to many people who have studied the GD & the majority of opinions are that FDR's plans did nothing to get us out of the depression, they only spiraled us down into it farther & faster. It is also been proven that we prosper better as a people when we have less gov't going on. We stayed in the GD longer than we should have because of the FDR way. Yes we were already heading down when FDR took over but he put us there faster. There were some good things he did I admit that, but over all it was not a good deal for our country. And yes it was WWII that pulled us out of it.
As to the comment about how well you do in school being the determiner of what type of job or schooling you get to qualify for. WHAT????????????? This is a free country & we are free to choose what type of education & how much of an education we get. We should never change that if we do then we are no better than the communist & socialist countries in this world.
My opinion is that the gov't has no business telling us how to run our business, that is what a capitalist society is all about. Our gov't has no business buying banks & nationalizing them either. I worked hard to earn my college education & am very proud that it was not given to me or the fact that I was given a career I was able to choose it myself.