bad chicken

lwheelr

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Ever seen the meat markets in third world countries? They are FULL of funky meat. What do you think people routinely ate before the invention of the refrigerator?

Historically, "EYEWwwww" is what people ate every day.

If meat goes "off", even if it is green and slimy, high enough heat, for long enough, will kill anything nasty in it (unless it has been canned or kept in an airless environment and has developed botulism). So you cook the dickens out of it, and it won't hurt you.

Cooking won't improve the taste though. Beef, chicken, etc, that is too old will still TASTE off after it is cooked. The bacteria have broken it down and changed the flavor - just like they do with fermented foods. People who are accustomed to the flavor don't think there is anything wrong with it. They also develop a high tolerance for common bacteria and fungus, which they are exposed to in handling the meat.

The reason the French courts developed highly seasoned dishes during the middle ages, is because of gamey meat. They had no refrigerators, so they'd butcher something, and eat off it until it was gone. So the first meat tasted quite different from the last, and since MOST of their meat was off, and they developed a taste for it, they got to hanging it for a day or so before cutting into it to begin with (something our meat producers still do, and something people are advised to do with home butchered or wild game meat).

In the courts, meat was consumed much faster, so they started seasoning it more highly to disguise the FRESH taste, NOT to disguise the gamey flavor (which is what we would naturally think).

Now, they DID re-cook it daily, following the old rule of Pease Porridge - "in the pot, nine days old". But in between cooking, it decayed, and the flavor changed day to day. When the meat was gone, they'd butcher another animal and go to work on it. Poor families did the same thing with a small chunk of meat bought at the fly infested markets - they just had to make that small piece go for a week or two.

In Australia, the heat meant that during many months of summer, they could not butcher beef, it just rotted too fast, and became infested with flies too fast. So they ate a lot of mutton, smaller carcass, they could eat it faster.

Typically, cooking it in small pieces, by a means OTHER than pan frying (boiling, baking, etc), is more certain in getting it cooked all the way through. That was typical earlier in history anyway, steaks were not generally a popular food, they tended toward roasts and soups or stews.

I'm NOT advocating that you cultivate a taste for spoiled meat. Just sayin' that humanity survived for millenia without refrigerators or freezers, and by and large, people didn't die of food poisoning.

Heat kills germs. It does not destroy TOXINS produced by bacteria or fungus, but most of the common ones are not harmful to people. Botulism toxin is one notable exception - but it grows only under certain conditions. In general, meat is safe to eat, even if it does not taste or smell right, as long as it has been cooked really really well.

In a survival situation, having access to some strong seasonings might be helpful... :)
 

tortoise

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valmom said:
I didn't read that it was in the food part of the forum and I thought -I didn't know Abi had chickens, wonder what the chicken did? Make too much noise and bother the neighbors?
:yuckyuck

That is why I looked at the thread too!

:lol:
 

AnnaRaven

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tortoise said:
valmom said:
I didn't read that it was in the food part of the forum and I thought -I didn't know Abi had chickens, wonder what the chicken did? Make too much noise and bother the neighbors?
:yuckyuck

That is why I looked at the thread too!

:lol:
Same here.

Abi - with chickens? :gig
 

patandchickens

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lwheelr said:
Ever seen the meat markets in third world countries? They are FULL of funky meat. What do you think people routinely ate before the invention of the refrigerator?
True, but their meat is much "cleaner" than what comes out of North American commercial poultry plants and grocery stores.

Much much much, IMO.

I find it *stunning* how much longer home-slaughtered poultry lasts in the fridge than store-boughten.

Poultry is much much worse for this, IMO, than beef/pork/lamb. I think the reason is that with beef/pork/lamb, the carcass is so large that little if any of any individual "cut" is exposed to the outside when the carcass is processed/hung. Whereas because chickens, and even turkeys, are so small, it's ALL "outside meat", exposed to all the feces and goop in the rinse/cooling water.

Also I think a good argument could be made that much of North American meat, poultry especially, is raised in much filthier more-stressed conditions than a lot of what's eaten elsewhere int he world, so it has a more ominous bacterial flora already there waiting to colonize your cutlet.

If meat goes "off", even if it is green and slimy, high enough heat, for long enough, will kill anything nasty in it (unless it has been canned or kept in an airless environment and has developed botulism). So you cook the dickens out of it, and it won't hurt you.
It's not that simple though, unless you are talking about REALLY cooking the dickens out of it (e.g. an hour at a hard fast boil), which tends to render it rather inedible. It's a Vegas or half-life type thing. Some small percentage 'escapes' a given amount of cooking, due to location or chance or genotype. If the meat is reasonably clean, normal or long cooking will kill all of anything that's there. But if there is enough total amount of <favorite pathogenic bacteria of choice> in the meat, it has enough "votes" so to speak, enough lottery tickets, that it's not hard for a few lucky bacteria to squeak through and make you pretty sick.

Again, big difference IMO between modern poultry-packing-plant meat, versus something you killed and cleaned yourself.

Please understand I'm not disagreeing at all with your general point, only with the extent to which it applies to Abi's particular situation i.e. whiffy GROCERY STORE POULTRY in particular.

And like I say, I eat pretty much anything (enough chilies can disguise a whole lot :p) and one of the probably 2-3 times I've had food poisoning in my whole life was from a pot of chicken chili made with elderly grocery-store chicken.

Pat
 

lwheelr

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Another huge difference is time in transit, and storage conditions. Most traditional markets are supplied from the farms nearby, and not really kept under refrigeration. So the type of microflora that incubate in it are fairly simple and non-aggressive. They'll make you sick if you are not used to them, or not used to cooking meat like that.

Meat in the US is transported long distances, frozen and thawed, often re-frozen, or carried long distances under refrigeration.

That doesn't STOP the growth of pathogens, it merely slows them down, and means only the more aggressive ones multiply strongly.

Homegrown chicken lasts longer in the fridge because you get it on day 1.

Commercial chicken is usually weeks, if not months old by the time you get it. If it was IQF'd and kept that way, then it will stay fairly fresh, but if it was sold as unfrozen chicken, chances are it has already had a fairly long life outside the freezer.

The last component here is preservatives. Most commercial chicken and pork has preservatives injected into it. ONLY the most aggressive pathogens survive that, or recolonize in that, so when it goes bad, it REALLY goes nasty.

The rule still holds though - cook it enough, and it will generally be safe to eat.

And I do mean boiling it for an hour or more - again, traditionally, that is how most meat was handled. It was boiled or roasted until it "fell off the bones". Like I said, pan-frying really isn't a good idea with older meat. The pot on the back of the stove, or on the hook over the fire cooked pretty much everything. Only more upscale homes had a spit, and then things were roasted until the outside was black and the meat slipped from the bones.

People didn't used to fuss nearly as much over whether their meat was "tender" or not, and they didn't eat rare meat unless it was freshly killed.

Our preparation habits and "norms" have changed a lot in the last 100 years.
 

k15n1

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I like your point about tenderness. Yerars ago, domestic animals were worked for years before being eaten, so they were a bit tough. The cookery of the day used several strategies for dealing with the toughness: cutting muscle fibers cross-wise and cooking to a high enough temp to break down collagen, to name a few. The same treatment is needed for venison, I am told.

Thanks for the history lesson on mean, Laura. Herold McGee has some information on this topic in his book On Food and Cooking. In particular, he addresses the myth of using spices to cover up the taste of decay.
 

FarmerChick

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Anyone literally dying of starvation here? Not sure where your next meal if any will appear?

don't eat it if you are in doubt, the medical bills you rack up aren't worth it at all!!!! :p
 

MsPony

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Lmao I always give the boys at work my leftovers. One time there were a few bites left of my burrito, so I threw it out. They totally scavenged it to eat :p
 
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