Daydreaming while waiting impatiently!

[tortoise]

Warning, political and COVID topics

I didnt sleep much, less than 4 hours. WI voting is swinging toward the candidate whose supporters preferred absentee voting, but its too close to call. WI allows absentee ballots to be received/counted until Nov 6, if they are postmarked by Nov 3.

I hate suspense. This whole thing is uncomfortably close.

I'm rolling my eyes now thinking about local's beliefs that COVID19 will just disappear now that the election is over. Cases are still increasing local and statewide, and hitting record highs of new cases almost daily. Rural/regional hospitals are feeling the strain. ICU bed above 80% full, but thats not the limiting factor now. Both regional clinic/hospital systems are limited by staffing. They have stopped elective procedures again. Most people here fixate on the low death rate (death rate isnt even the issue, with COVID19, FFS!) and refuse to follow public health recommendations. My town has the highest rate of COVID cases on the county - in the last 4 weeks, 1 in 16 people here has had confirmed COVID. People are gathering in bars and restaurants and we have near-daily alerts of COVID-positive people having been in bars, casinos, restaurants.

I'm frustrated. I grew up in a higher-population, higher-education, more diverse, Democratic-leaning city. I'm an hour drive away in a low-population, low-education, low-diversity, (racist, religious discriminatory) rural area that has been enamored by Trump. Their choices are based on misinformation to outright lies, and they cling to it all fiercely. I cannot comprehend it.

I am staying home and keeping kids home, of course, and looks like it will be a long time staying home. Strike that - it will FEEL like a long time staying home because of frustration and winter weather. I'm expecting to be staying home for 3 months, with the exception of weekly no-contact grocery pickup. If people here travel and have family gatherings for Christmas and COVID increases again, it could be 5 months but by then we'll be at lambing and greenhouse season and mild enough weather to see friends in-person again (outdoors, distanced). Seems I need to plan for the worst of 5 - 6 months at home. I dont think there will be another round of panic shopping, but I'm keeping cleaing/disinfectant supplies well-stocked. I need to sew more masks, some of mine are wearing out.

 

[baymule]

I am sad for you. Sad that you are in such a survival situation and yes, it is survival. I am Republican, I just can't vote for a creeping big government socialist agenda. I voted straight democrat in the past, then split ticket, now straight Republican. That does not mean that I am ignorant and hang out in bars, certainly not a racist and I am sick and tired of being painted with such a broad brush of ugly labels. Even my small rural neighborhood/area is racially diverse and no one hates anybody, we all get along and help one another.

I recognize that Trump has his issues. He has a big mouth and sometimes he just needs to shut the heck up. I don't have rabies. I am not a foaming at the mouth Trump supporter. For me, his attraction is that he is NOT a slimy swamp creature, not a career politician, feeding at the public trough like a giant parasitic pig. He is a businessman and is not interested in being a career politician. ALL career politicians need to retire, quit or whatever, just GO HOME. Presidents have term limits. I wish that the rest of the governing body had term limits. It was never intended for people to get into politics and stay there forever. It gives opportunity to too much corruption and I don't care what side of the fence you are on. This paragraph is dedicated to BOTH parties.

I don't mean to be rude, certainly not to you, you are my friend, no matter what your politics, religious beliefs, race, number of fingers, what car you drive, what house you live in or anything else. I am just tired of being lumped into a basket of deplorable throw backs to Neanderthals, especially by the media. And I know that you don't aim that at me, personally. Having said that, my husband had his DNA done at 23/me and he is 2% Neanderthal and also 2% Black.

I want everyone on this forum to know that I care about each and every one of you, no matter what. Period. We are AMERICANS. We are family. We don't have to always agree, but we don't descend into ugly behavior. We don't call names nor do we slander each other's beliefs. It is OK to discuss our differences in a respectful manner.

This election, no matter who wins when the dust settles, will make half the country very unhappy. I pray that there will be no riots, no burning buildings and businesses, no infantile protests. Martin Luther King had it right. Peaceful protests. Peaceful.

 

[tortoise]

@baymule , I think our political views are similar and you bring up some interesting points. Your views are very different than the population in this area. We have predominantly the uneducated Trump fans here. Its frustrating because theres no reconciliation. Theres no way to discuss anything because they tend to be combative and aggressive.

The only thing I know to do is vote with dollars. The last time I had sheep sheared, the shearer ranted about the local black immigrant population and bragged about his violence toward them, he was openly misogynist and went as far as insulting my female veterinarian (who was there helping out because she loves working with sheep). oh heck no! He will never get a dime from me again.

Initially the little local grocery store was awesome about cleaning and masks when COVID became a concern here. But when the Democrat governor issued a mask mandate and the Trumpers lost their minds over it, the store didnt enforce masks, their employees dont cover their faces anymore, and they stopped cleaning. They lost me as a customer - they lost $19,000/year sales from me. I switched to Walmart pickup instead which is only getting about $6,000/year from me, and about $2,000/year for produce delivery. I was overpaying significantly on groceries just to support a small local business because DH and I believe its important.

We only get one vote for a politician, but we vote with dollars every day!

I have voted Democrat, Republican, and Libertarian. Not in sequence, but voting for the person, not the party. This time I voted for Biden. I think we need experience, security and stability in the president now - we're in a tentative and insecure place with civil unrest and global tension. While I'm left-leaning, I'm still not a fan of Bidens policy ideas. But since our legislative branch is ineffective at making major changes, I dont think theres much risk of overly progressive policies taking hold, especially with an extremely cobservative judicial branch. Trump's approach to foreign affairs is, frankly, TERRIFYING. He is unprepared, inexperienced, and IMPULSIVE. He has alienated allies and made us vulnerable.

I think getting rid of lobbying or term limits would achieve similar results. Either way disrupts the relationships that have been problematic. I'm more interested in limiting lobbying.

The longer counting, recounting, and legal challenges last, the more the USA loses. Do we think a petulant lame duck is going to aggressively pursue controlling COVID and getting resources to those who need it most? The next months will be tense, no matter who is the next president.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

My 2 cents worth. I have also voted different parties in the past. Heck I've even voted for the green party on occasion. But no way in hell would I ever vote for Trump. My reasons are simple. My morals and ethics will not allow it. (not saying anything negative about those who did vote for him - this is just MY reasoning). I realize others have reasons that work for them. But, my belief is that if you can't be a good person - you can't be a good leader. He has solidified that belief in me.

He totally blew the Covid response....and if he blew that so badly how would he respond to a military threat to our country? Would he simply stop writing love letters to the Kim Jung-un? Would he actually stand up to a dictator or just lie about his responses? Or would he push that nuclear button? He terrifies me.

You can't denigrate our military and veterans and score points with me. You can't make fun of the disabled, you can't abuse women, you can't promote violence, you can't tear gas peaceful protestors so you can have a photo op with an upside down Bible, and you can't do your best to divide this country and score any points with me. His supporters attacked a bus on a Texas highway and he said they did nothing wrong for God's sake. He is unhinged.

Biden and Harris were certainly not my first choice of the democratic presidential hopefuls. But, the worst of them would be better than Trump in my opinion.

Love ya'll, but our differences are what make us so wonderful, right!!??!!

 

[tortoise]

@frustratedearthmother , thats why DH voted for Biden! He has only voted Deomcrat ONE other time - to get Scott Walker (former WI governor) out of office. He voted for Walker 1st time, and in the recall election, but after the Foxcon decision he voted for Walker's opponent in the next election.

I have serious problems with Trump's attitudes about race, disability, violence, and his questionable relationship with truth (including intentionally misleading re: COVID!!!!). His poor choices are literally killing thousands of Americans, both directly and indirectly.

Global annihilation is just a slightly greater fear for me. We cant begin healing divides in 2024 if we're all dying or dead from nuclear war. DH and I have lost a lot of sleep over the North Korea situation in the last couple years.

 

[baymule]

This is what I’m talking about. Sensible discussion between adults acting like adults. I’m probably Libertarian more than anything, I just can’t vote for more government interference in my life. I certainly can’t vote for government going to Socialism. The Democrat party has left the building, it is not the party I voted for in the past. Socialism fails. I know there are decent Democrats that are more moderate but by not standing up for their beliefs, they are complicit in steering our great country to the failure of Socialism. Tax the rich? They will leave, they have avenues not open to the rank and file citizen. Raise taxes on business? They don’t have to stay here either. Businesses left a long time ago. Mass exodus of capital leaves everyone else scrabbling for what’s left. Tax the rich appeals to people’s greed. Sad. If someone has worked hard and become wealthy, I’m proud for them. They don’t owe me anything, it’s theirs. If a huge corporation is making money, that means they have employees, those people have families, homes, cars and employment. Their stock pays dividends. Reinvested, those dividends buy more stock, building wealth for even little people. I’m certainly not against that nor do I want to penalize the companies that provide employment and investment opportunities.

Sometimes it’s not so much what you vote for as much as what you vote against. We can all be different and we can all be friends. I love you all.

 

[wyoDreamer]

I almost like Biden, I believe that he cares, even though he is a career politician. It is his running mate who scared the b'geezes out of me.

I'm happy to be civil in this discussion.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

No doubt Biden is a nice guy and that is important in my book. And, you certainly are being civil!

 

[tortoise]

I voted for Gary Johnson (Libertarian) in 2016. I loved his tax reform plan. I may have details fuzzy, but I recall: It was eliminating all federal (edited to add: might have been ALL tax - business, state, payroll, property, etc) taxes other than sales tax, with monthly refund checks to families cover tax up to a certain amount so they can get essentials tax free. It was consumption based tax - makes sense in consumerist society. You control how much tax you pay by how much you consume. Those who consume less (assuming saving more and thereby reducing dependence on goverment resources), pay less tax. Those who consume more products (saving less and increasing risk of dependence on government resources) pay more.

I think federal budget is bloated and poorly managed but I dont think social services is the appropriate place to cut. I dont think tax hikes are the solution either. Removing excess has to be the answer, however unpopular it will be. Lobbyists are really the #1 problem here. Also hiding excess/unrelated spending into popular bills, thats a HUGE problem.

Removing excess is why I voted for Scott Walker the first 2 times. He was trying to trim off the excess. He was unpopular for wanting to cut funding for arts and music in schools (I didnt like that part!). But then when he gave major tax $ to a huge corp (Foxcon) that lost DHs and my vote.

When human rights and respect are the topic, or the environment - then I'm over with the Democrats. Trump gutted environmental protections, we are "Ruthless", and basic human rights are a problem now, so I'm swinging to Democrat this year. Who knows what the most pressing issues will be in 2024? After COVID bailouts, probably economy? I bet I'll end up voting Republican next presidential election cycle.

I am enjoying this conversation. I like understanding other points of view

 

[frustratedearthmother]

When human rights and respect are the topic, or the environment - then I'm over with the Democrats.

Ditto!