DEBT FREEDOM...how many see it as the first step to SS?

[Dace]

Anybody ever thought of just selling all the property/houses and going off-grid, backwoods and no debts except property taxes? Buy a piece of land and pay cash from the proceeds from the sell of your homes and build a log cabin from the logs on the land?

I would be all over that option but 1. property values have fallen so much and we owed too much on our house and 2. DH would never be on board.
Logistical question....in you 'sell it off and get out' scenario, how does one continue to create revenue? Even living very modestly and ultra SSly you still have expenses. I have often thought we should just pack it up and get out of Dodge, but then I think how would we survive? My DH's job sort of requires the city. I have always thought of creating some sort of web based business that you could just run from anywhere would be the perfect solution.

Side question for you Bee...I am toying with the idea of making some of my own beauty treatments...if I wanted to make some of my own lip balms ans such how long will I need to have bees before I can begin harvesting beeswax from them? I suppose I could find a supplier and buy it.

 

[OkieJonesClan]

How funny . .My husband would totally do that! We do have a problem in that we just bought our house 2 years ago, and while the value hasn't gone down it would take us too long to sell it and only being 2 years into the mortgage we wouldn't get enough to pull it off! Besides, we just figured out how to fix a leaking faucet, we are lacking in knowledge on how to do too many things. We are working towards being debt free and learning how to do everything we can to be SS. The book the Complete Tightwad Gazette has been a huge help for us . .gets you thinking about how you can reuse things or make things yourself rather than throwing things out or buying more. We are doing our best to get there and the prospect of having our first "farm" animals and garden as well as having everything but the house paid off this year is so thrilling! I do wish we didn't have any debt, it would make it all so much easier, but even if we are all taking baby steps, at least we are making progress.
I love that we can all encourage each other, share knowledge and experience and grow together on this path.

 

[Beekissed]

Logistical question....in you 'sell it off and get out' scenario, how does one continue to create revenue?

Everyone seems to think there are no jobs in the country! There are...they aren't as lucrative, nor as plentiful, and you have to drive a little farther to reach them sometimes. But then....you don't need that mongo pay to make it out here, either. Plus, having less money going out would increase that payload.

As for "someone" doing work when they come home from work....that still happens, doesn't it? On a farm? Or a homestead? Unless someone at home, who is not working off the place, has already done these daily chores.

Mostly the water gets hauled in twice a day, wood once. It takes prudent use of time and a good routine...but then, without TV to watch, computers to use and all the other distractions of our lives now, one would settle into a whole new thing. Once again, married couples would work side by side for a common dream. Children would learn the value of teamwork, organization and time management.

Its hard for a single person to do it unless he/she has their primary income from their home. But two people? One working out, one working in, until a good, homegrown source of income can be established...or not...either way, all it takes is some hard work and a common goal, a change in thought patterns, a different dream.

We've tossed this idea around a few times through the years. I believe we could do it. It would be an adventure of a lifetime.

It was! I've been trying all my life to get back there and do it again. It was like living on a different planet than everyone else....it was nice, peaceful, satisfying, healthy, and almost spiritual. You know that feeling you have when you go camping? Like the family are all together, the air is fresh, the night is quiet, there are no phones, TVs, radios blaring in your ear...you can actually HEAR the fire in the stove. Its like you've taken a vacation from life. You actually talk to your loved ones and you have the time to listen and digest the thoughts. You make more plans together, you go more places together, you have less pets and more "food" animals, you find easier and better ways to do things~instead of spending money on something that is already made or developed. Well, that is what living off grid is like.

No hurry, no rush, no stress...just living with by the tune of the seasons and the days. Hard work? Yes! Its good for the body and the mind. At the end of the day you can look back and actually SEE what you have done...a big stack of wood, the garden all hilled up and neat, the laundry all hanging on the line, the rows of colorful canned goods on the cellar shelves...it just feels goooood!

 

[Beekissed]

Nuff dreamin...back to the subject of debt freedom.....

 

[patandchickens]

I think about 50% of the value of debt-free-ness is the reality of it (not having interest multiplying away, hanging over your head)... but the other 50% or so of its value is the attitude it embodies. The idea that there isn't really very much we truly *need* in life, and we can choose to spend money only on a certain few things as means permit.

Both things make a person more self-sufficient, I think. And if you have the second one and some large debt falls on you out of the blue, like having to mortgage the house to pay unexpected huge medical bills or some such, I think you are in MUCH the better position than someone with the debt but with a more "modern" attitude about it.


Pat

 

[PamsPride]

Logistical question....in you 'sell it off and get out' scenario, how does one continue to create revenue?

Everyone seems to think there are no jobs in the country! There are...they aren't as lucrative, nor as plentiful, and you have to drive a little farther to reach them sometimes. But then....you don't need that mongo pay to make it out here, either. Plus, having less money going out would increase that payload.

As for "someone" doing work when they come home from work....that still happens, doesn't it? On a farm? Or a homestead? Unless someone at home, who is not working off the place, has already done these daily chores.

Mostly the water gets hauled in twice a day, wood once. It takes prudent use of time and a good routine...but then, without TV to watch, computers to use and all the other distractions of our lives now, one would settle into a whole new thing. Once again, married couples would work side by side for a common dream. Children would learn the value of teamwork, organization and time management.

Its hard for a single person to do it unless he/she has their primary income from their home. But two people? One working out, one working in, until a good, homegrown source of income can be established...or not...either way, all it takes is some hard work and a common goal, a change in thought patterns, a different dream.

We've tossed this idea around a few times through the years. I believe we could do it. It would be an adventure of a lifetime.

It was! I've been trying all my life to get back there and do it again. It was like living on a different planet than everyone else....it was nice, peaceful, satisfying, healthy, and almost spiritual. You know that feeling you have when you go camping? Like the family are all together, the air is fresh, the night is quiet, there are no phones, TVs, radios blaring in your ear...you can actually HEAR the fire in the stove. Its like you've taken a vacation from life. You actually talk to your loved ones and you have the time to listen and digest the thoughts. You make more plans together, you go more places together, you have less pets and more "food" animals, you find easier and better ways to do things~instead of spending money on something that is already made or developed. Well, that is what living off grid is like.

No hurry, no rush, no stress...just living with by the tune of the seasons and the days. Hard work? Yes! Its good for the body and the mind. At the end of the day you can look back and actually SEE what you have done...a big stack of wood, the garden all hilled up and neat, the laundry all hanging on the line, the rows of colorful canned goods on the cellar shelves...it just feels goooood!

*I* Love this scenerio!! Only problem is I would KILL my DH!!! He has NO desire to live without all the extras!! If I put anything else on his plate he freaks! I even mention doing something and he thinks HE is the one that is going to have to do it...He freaks! The only way we could sell out and buy something debt free would be by buying a MAJOR fixer upper. We have remodeled our bathrooms on our own and for the sake of our marriage I have agreed that we will go with contractors for that stuff again!
I did read about one family...I think they have 8 or 10 kids...I read her blog regularly...that sold their old house and when they moved they paid CASH for their new house...$16K. They have had major repair and remodeling work that they have had to do and they just do it as they can. I also read about another family that has 11 kids that bought a piece of property...with cash...and built a garage and lived in the back of the garage while the DH works on building the house debt free. (These are current life stories.) My DH is not mentally strong enough to do this!! We would be shutting off the internet just to pay for nerve pills for my DH!!
I would love to buy a large piece of property, build and put two two bedroom apartments above the garage*, sell our house, and live in it while my DH and family built a HUGE house. Then get the house to the point that we could move into it...kitchen and a bathroom done...and then slowly finish one room at a time.
With the job that my DH has now that dream is just not attainable. He gets up at 4AM to be at work and is ready to drop by the time he gets home at 5PM (used to be 7PM when he was working OT. Plus he was working Saturdays.) Most of his vacation time this year is going to be spent taking time off when I have the baby.

*I want a six car garage with two two bedroom apartments above it. Have a walk way to go threw from one side to the next until our house is built leaving one side bedrooms until we finish the house and then finish off the kitchen and such to make a second finished apartment and close the walkway up. Then the older kids could live in it when they get married or go to college...giving them a place of their own yet something they can afford and still be 'close' to home while they save $$ for their own house. Or use the apartments for my parents or MIL if they get to the point that they need assisted living.

 

[TanksHill]

****You know that feeling you have when you go camping?****

I love that feeling. Does it feel like that at your place Bee? You know late in the day after all the work is done and the sun is starting to set. AAhhhh!! How nice. I can almost hear the crickets.

 

[Beekissed]

The only problem with building a HUGE house, is that it takes huge amounts of money...unless one uses free or really cheap construction materials...then you have to heat/cool it!

Logs, hay bale, cob, stone....if you can get it off your land or can obtain it cheaply, you can build a house for a fraction of the cost of traditional housing structures.

One would have to realize that you wouldn't be doing electrical wiring unless you were doing solar, wind or generated power of some source. You wouldn't be doing traditional plumbing with sewage lines, tanks, etc. You would be using a composting toilet or outhouse and only having a grey water sewage output. Depending on your mode of getting running water into the house and heating it, its likely that you wouldn't be using as much expense with this either.

Why sell everything and start over off-grid if you are going to go into debt again for a big new house? Or even spends scads on fixing up an existing old house? If it stays warm in the winter and you can cool it in the summer, is big enough to house your family, and it isn't leaking water on your head when it rains....why spend a lot of money to "fix it up"? Make it livable and then just live.

I know that sounds so strange...but is a house less comfortable if its of a moderate size and ain't pretty? Nope. If its functional and keeps you dry and warm, is that enough? Should be. I think we've all been trained to measure success with how nice our houses look or how much square footage it contains. I think someone would have to switch gears to get out of that mindset that a house is just a dwelling place and not who we are. I think every woman wants a cute or even beautiful home....we can't help it....me too ...but pretty doesn't put food on the table.

Sorry, guys, but I can't turn my mind off lately.....it keeps running overtime on the possibilities, the dreams, the whys and the wherefors. Just wondering if you all have the same thoughts about just how far one could, or would, take this whole SS thingy?

 

[PamsPride]

Yeah, I am having a HARD time finding that balance between being completely...or as near as possible to self sufficient and wanting it ALL!!!

 

[Beekissed]

It just takes one seed, dropped in the fertile soil of the mind, to sprout tremendous ideas. I just keep dropping those seeds, just to see what may spring from the ground!

I'm reading a book right now that shows actual pics of the spring houses that people used to cool off their milks, eggs, butters, etc. and the ice cellars they constructed. One paragraph tells about them placing their root crops in a sand box in the cellar...I've read about this before. This book describes farm life from 100 years ago and its fascinating!