Do any of you go WITHOUT health insurance? By choice?

[abifae]

I don't have any and won't get any until absolutely forced.

This is because I think the entire issue with America's medical community is the insurance. Everything not covered by insurance has naturally gotten cheaper the way these things should. Everything covered by insurance is kept artificially high priced. So I refused to join in on that unless the only other option is jail/high fines.

Although this year, I want to complete my personal medical concept and get a "do not resucitate" living will made and whatever you need to have that upon your person. Right up there with me "allergic to PCN" sticker I need stamped somewhere on me should I be made unconscious near medical help.

If I'm lucky enough to be peacefully dead at some point and someone brings me back just to dump tens of thousands of dollars of medical bills on me.... bad things will happen!!

 

[Marshmallow Man]

I think you're partly right about the insurance actually allowing the medical industry to charge more. It's scary to be without when you get older though. I don't know how recent your picture is. When I was your age I would have taken the chance too. Once I got a family I didn't consider it an option as long as my employer paid part of it. Right now if My employer dropped their part I would probably switch to a much higher deductible/copay plan.

 

[abifae]

That pic was last year So yeh. I'm young, healthy (my only health issues cannot be helped by a doctor anyway) and consider my careful diet my insurance at this point since I spend more on food eating healthy than I otherwise would.

For instance, if money is tight, I no longer skip meals to save money LOL.

If I get my new job there are benefits so if there is dental I might do that. I definitely know I should get to a dentist at some point. It's been 8 years.

 

[me&thegals]

When I was between jobs (or working part time or something -- it was a while ago), I had an option of very low cost catastrophic coverage only. It didn't even kick in until my bills went over several thousand dollars. Regular doctor's visits, etc. were not covered at all. I thought it was a decent option for someone young and healthy, since it was cheap but covered the worst possibility. If you Google "catastrophic insurance" a bunch of information comes up. Good luck!

That looks like a very promising option, thanks!

 

[me&thegals]

Sometimes even having health insurance isn't such a great deal. I had a lot of tests to figure out unexplained weight loss; I owe $1300 for a CAT scan, & that's WITH insurance!! I have a $1000 deductible plus 30% of any hospital services. I suppose it's better than having NO insurance, but that's about all I can say about it.

I went about 2 years without when I was self-employed. I ended up in the ER with pneumonia; that was a $2000+ bill. Took me 3 years to pay it off.

Absolutely! I got basic allergy tests for the kids this past year, and the out-of-pocket expense WITH good insurance was $1000! I nearly passed out.

 

[me&thegals]

Sometimes even having health insurance isn't such a great deal. I had a lot of tests to figure out unexplained weight loss; I owe $1300 for a CAT scan, & that's WITH insurance!!

See thats whats nuts - my son had to have TWO of those CT scans, and it cost us $800 each. how the heck do they come up with $1300 After insurance? Did the insurance pay $10?

Health care in this country needs a MAJOR overhaul. Insurance companies are only in it to make a fortune, off the everyday person who's working their tail off. There is no reason a doctor needs to charge a person $120 to see them for 15 minutes (or whatever they charge) Doctors only charge such stupid amounts because of their own insurance, and then they have to accept whatever the patients insurance will pay. Its just stupid, and it doesn't work.

Aren't those tests crazy?

As for doctors, I work at a clinic and you need to remember that while the doctor may have only seen you 15 min, that $120 pays for the receptionist who booked you in, the lab to be on staff, the clinic manager, the nurse/MA who took your vitals, the transcriptionist, medical billing person, phone answerer, coder, cleaning crew, etc. A LOT of people get paid off that $120 15-min visit...

 

[me&thegals]

I think you have to sit down and look at some of the likelier "things going south" scenarios, and decide how you'd be with them if you lacked insurance.

For instance suppose someone significantly broke their arm or leg -- which as I understand it is usually in the $10,000 to $30,000 range. Would you have banked (rather than spent) the unpaid premium money so that you could pay the bills, or would you be ok with scrambling for the money?

We could probably bank part, but probably be paying farm loan with part.

Or for instance suppose someone (God forbid) was diagnosed with a life-threatening serious illness such as a cancer, that had a pretty good chance of being cured by the application of $100,000 or $500,000 (or more) worth of treatment but would be Real Bad if untreated? What would the plan be, there, and how would you feel about it? Declare bankruptcy, pin hopes on cheapie alternative treatments, not treat?

And finally suppose someone (again, God forbid) developed a problem that could be very manageable and not especially life-shortening with ongoing drugs/treatment, but would be real miserable without treatment and reduce life expectancy considerably. Again, what would you do (same basic choices as above), and how would you feel about that?

This is where catastrophic coverage is starting to look good

Personally I would drop homeowners' insurance (if the house were paid off -- obviously you can't if you've got a mortgage) way before dropping health insurance. (Although I know it's a smaller bill. But the damages are much more inherently-capped, except in the case of liability issues but really VERY VERY few people ever need their homeowners' policies for those.) I would also drop satellite TV and probably internet service (can always use the library, except for banking) before dropping health insurance. Although I have certainly gone without health insurance at various times over the years, not by choice.

Yikes! I can't imagine dropping home owner's insurance. We have people to our house all the time for classes, picking up CSA shares, working in our garden, so dropping liability seems scary. Plus, we have 15 years left on our loan, our home is worth far more than the $ it takes to insure it, and if our house burned down we would have nothing with which to rebuild, or very, very little. Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like a very scary option. Plus, our homeowners costs about 1/7 to 1/10 of our health insurance.

I think with our age and our health, I am counting on no chronic health issues. I suppose at nearly 40, people definitely can have heart attacks and cancer, but I'm counting on not having chronic disease. But, even children can develop cancer.

I think what this conversation has led me to is the idea of insurance for major things but not for the little things. Is anyone with catastrophic insurance willing to say how much it costs monthly? I will have to research this possibility in my area, but I'm curious about a ballpark estimate.

Thanks for everyone who has responded--great thoughts--and I welcome any more opinions you all have.

 

[Shiloh Acres]

I'd be interested in the catastrophic insurance too. That or a broken bone is probably the only things I'd want to see a doctor for at this point. Glad to have read this thread. I WOULD have a little more peace of mind in that case.

 

[Marshmallow Man]

Sometimes even having health insurance isn't such a great deal. I had a lot of tests to figure out unexplained weight loss; I owe $1300 for a CAT scan, & that's WITH insurance!!

See thats whats nuts - my son had to have TWO of those CT scans, and it cost us $800 each. how the heck do they come up with $1300 After insurance? Did the insurance pay $10?

Health care in this country needs a MAJOR overhaul. Insurance companies are only in it to make a fortune, off the everyday person who's working their tail off. There is no reason a doctor needs to charge a person $120 to see them for 15 minutes (or whatever they charge) Doctors only charge such stupid amounts because of their own insurance, and then they have to accept whatever the patients insurance will pay. Its just stupid, and it doesn't work.

Aren't those tests crazy?

As for doctors, I work at a clinic and you need to remember that while the doctor may have only seen you 15 min, that $120 pays for the receptionist who booked you in, the lab to be on staff, the clinic manager, the nurse/MA who took your vitals, the transcriptionist, medical billing person, phone answerer, coder, cleaning crew, etc. A LOT of people get paid off that $120 15-min visit...

I was thinking about that one day when I saw my doctor and realized how rush rush everything was. It seems like the Doctor is always in a big rush. I remember when the Dr could spend some time with you. Guess the days of Marcus Welby are gone. Only one question per visit too.

What gets me is how little the insurance companies pay to network providers, compared to out of network. So if the in network provider can turn a profit then the out of network must be making a lot. I know all the in network providers complain. However almost all the doctors work for groups that have a bunch of doctors. Those groups wouldn't be doing it if they didn't make a profit. Of course it's probably a small margin.

 

[Wildsky]

Aren't those tests crazy?

As for doctors, I work at a clinic and you need to remember that while the doctor may have only seen you 15 min, that $120 pays for the receptionist who booked you in, the lab to be on staff, the clinic manager, the nurse/MA who took your vitals, the transcriptionist, medical billing person, phone answerer, coder, cleaning crew, etc. A LOT of people get paid off that $120 15-min visit...

Its still way over the top - last time we went to the doc was to have the IV line taken out of my son's arm - we hauled him out of the hospital early and they insisted on keeping the IV line.
Anyhoo - the office consists of 4 or 5 doctors, they all share the 3 ladies in the office for phone/billing etc. And I saw two nurses in back (one who actually took the IV line out) The doctor saw us for about 5 minutes tops.

SO they're pulling in $480 for each doc per hour - give or take. (I'm sure they add more when they actually have to go across the street to the hospital)
So its at the least $2000 per hour. or $16000 per day.

Now that kinda makes a person sit up straighter. I know they have rent to pay or a mortgage, and all the salaries and supplies etc... but they are still making a TON of money.