Etiquette

[abifae]

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[big brown horse]

Manners are oh so important around here. My mother and father were huge on manners as I was growing up. My ninny sisters are, well, ninnies, but they have good manners when they are around other people. Hard to believe though.

I also wait for a gentleman to open my door. The butt wiggle don't cut it for me like it used to, but a great big "thank you sir" and a smile makes up for it.

If I have to say what is on my mind (so to speak), I call my technique "mean nice". It usualy gets my point across much better than if I had lost my manners in the process.

There is only one thing that will make me come unglued and that is my ex.

 

[Wannabefree]

Family dinners are scarce, that's what happened. Families for the most part do not interact enough anymore. We have drones living amongst us, with their faces either glued to a television, text message, video game, iPod in their ears, or whatever. We no longer have the same expectations from each other, because we have cut way back on interaction in the first place. That's my theory anyway I never would have gotten my DD13 to quit eating like a cow if we had not had SO MANY family dinners together. When I moved in she was 4 and ate off the couch(yes literally OFF the couch)or in the floor in front of the television. I stopped all that instantly, and weaned them from the TV DURING meal time. Now we eat facing each other at the table for every single meal we have together, which is usually just breakfast and dinner, but hey, 2 outta 3 aint bad, right? My children get bragged on about how polite and respectful they are and I have wondered why at times. I was brought up thinking that was how kids/people were SUPPOSED to act. Well...I have to agree not so much anymore, and I also agree with those who brag on my kids after seeing some of the kids she goes to school with. Their manners in general are atrocious. DD was always allowed video games, iPod and such, she was just monitored and not allowed to let these "things" consume her life. She still has a way to go being just 13, but she is lightyears ahead of the majority of her peers! It is sad.

 

[abifae]

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[patandchickens]

So why are such basic manners so lacking?

In significant part, I think they are NOT lacking as much as you percieve, it is just that there is less AGREEMENT these days on what CONSTITUTES basic manners. The people you are pointing to as "lacking basic manners" would probably be quite surprised and offended, and point out all the important ways in which they are very well-mannered and OTHER people are mysteriously lacking

(For instance, to my mother, two of the worst lapses of manners that one can commit are failing to send a thank-you note or giving a gift certificate rather than a personally-chosen gift. OTOH she does *not* think it is such an awful thing, although still 'technically' unmannerly, to tell people things of which you've specifically been asked *don't tell this person*, or to hang up the phone without saying goodbye. Personally I would prioritize things in the opposite order. But there is no absolute right or wrong, just convention and preference. If a mother and daughter can differ that much in convention/preference, how much more will a *society* vary )

After all, the society to which Emily Post (et al) was writing was a much more rigid, codified, hierarchical, and homogeneous society than what exists in most places nowadays.

Also, I think an argument can be made that human relations has dropped *way* down the list of things on peoples' radar. Largely I think b/c people encounter so many different people so rapidly and fleetingly, often fairly anonymously. It is more obvious why you should not be rude to Mr Jones who delivers your milk every day and can fix your furnace when it goes funny, than why you should not be rude to the voice on the other end of the Sears customer service phone line, or the person at the Walmart checkout who you will probably never see again as long as you live.

Personally I think this is a good example of the extreme good sense of the Biblical business about (I'm sure I'm not getting this quote exactly right but you know what I mean) "speak not of the mote in thy neighbor's eye before you remove the beam in thine own". As with "fairness", "good manners" I think is a concept mainly useful in guiding how one behaves TOWARDS OTHERS rather than being something one should necessarily feel entitled to see in how others treat oneself.

JMHO,

Pat

 

[abifae]

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[patandchickens]

All I'm saying is, not everyone's "manners" are YOUR "manners" it is not an absolute.

Pat

 

[ORChick]

All I'm saying is, not everyone's "manners" are YOUR "manners" it is not an absolute.

Pat

I think I need to disagree with this (politely, of course ). I think that etiquette in general, and manners in particular, are pretty much absolute. That is their purpose, after all, to make sure that we are all working from the same script. Now I will grant that the *absolute* varies from culture to culture - what we in North America perceive as polite is not necessarily what someone in Asia would agree with. And perhaps not even someone from Europe, for some things. But within our own society the rules are meant to help us get along - as Abi, and Heinlein, says: the lube for the cogs of society - and so must be similar for all. And maybe thats where the problem lies - people don't see the need to follow *antiquated* rules, and want to be free to do their own thing.

 

[abifae]

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[Dunkopf]

Every generation has complained about the generation after them. I don't think too many women that have grown up in the last 50 years would be real happy with Victorian era etiquette. If you have ever read an etiquette book from the 50's it is atrocious how they expected women to behave.

I am generally well mannered, until I'm given a reason not to be. I don't expect others to behave the same. All you can do is be nice yourself.