Food Prices, Shortages & Inflation - The Trash Index

[k15n1]

There are programs that pay farmers to let fields lay fallow, but that's certainly not the only agricultural subsidy. I think it's time for someone to go check agricultural stubsidies article in McWickipedia.

Agian with the Wiki? is that where you get all your info from? because as I stated earlier it's a public forum... Anyone can say whatever they like there doesn't make it 100% true... Not saying it's all bad but not 100% trustworthy....

So you missed my main point... The gov't is paying Farmers to NOT grow food... to drive UP the price... how is that one single point helping us the consumer??

I get your point. I acknowledged it in my previous response and here.

I'm just saying it's not the only program. There are all sorts of subsidies. Have a look at the Farm Bill.

 

[k15n1]

And that changes how rising food prices effect average families now in what way?!??!

That's basically what I've been asking too and notice how that part goes unanswered and is ignored... He keeps going back to prices from years ago without any substantial backing....

I thought this thread was about the trend in food prices. You have to consider past food prices to discuss a trend.

Have you read about the history of agricultural subsidies or the policy changes that attributed to Earl Butz during his tenure at the USDA? Here's a little excerpt from the Wikipedia:

In 1971, President Richard Nixon appointed Butz as Secretary of Agriculture, a position in which he continued to serve after Nixon resigned in 1974 as the result of the Watergate scandal. In his time heading the USDA, Butz revolutionized federal agricultural policy and reengineered many New Deal era farm support programs. For example, a program he abolished paid corn farmers to not plant all their land. This program had attempted to prevent a national oversupply of corn and low corn prices. His mantra to farmers was "get big or get out," and he urged farmers to plant commodity crops like corn "from fencerow to fencerow." These policy shifts coincided with the rise of major agribusiness corporations, and the declining financial stability of the small family farm.

How is this not substantial backing? How is the citation of a fact become trolling?

 

[Wifezilla]

I thought this thread was about the trend in food prices. You have to consider past food prices to discuss a trend.

This thread is about inflation, shortages and food prices. The inflation part is of particular interest because every time we go to the grocery store, we see higher prices, smaller packages, and lower quality. The fact that food was more expensive as a portion of income in the past does not change the fact that inflation is really happening NOW despite manipulation of the numbers by government officials. The fact that the inflation is worse in Zimbabwe doesn't change the impact it is having on families in the USA today.

I have posted this link before but apparently it is needed again.
www.shadowstats.com

Our current unemployment rate is around 23%.
Our current inflation rate around 7%.

"Hiring by small businesses slowed in August and employers reduced hours, an independent survey showed on Sunday, suggesting the recent stock market turmoil may have dampened job creation."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/29/us-usa-economy-jobs-idUSTRE77S00320110829

Grocery prices are hurting families. Fact. Unemployment is hurting families and communities. Fact

Now if you want to argue for the elimination of farm subsidies to bring real pricing to food, many here would have no issue with that. As for prices going up if subsidies are eliminated, that is arguable. I think there would be a temporary rise in food prices followed by a drop as true competition kicked in UNLESS government uses regulatory power to stifle competition and protect companies like Monsanto...which is a possible scenario.

If you want to discuss that there are other things people should cut before they cut groceries, that could be an interesting discussion. It doesn't change the fact that prices ARE rising for groceries, package sizes ARE shrinking and quality (especially on items like cotton clothing) ARE dropping.

 

[savingdogs]

Ben Bernanke? Is that you?

K15N1, I have a hard time believing that you seriously do not think food prices have gone up. Seriously!

Why don't you do a more informal and personal experiement for us? Make a shopping list of exactly certain items and sizes and go shop for it, and save your receipt. Pick whatever "non-luxury" items you like.

In two months, go buy those exact same items and sizes and let us know how the price compares.

Even if you do not factor in changes in income and the percentage of the family budget available for groceries fluctuating, I think it would be hard to argue your points if you pay attention to what you are actually buying and consuming and what it totals.

Comparing the state of the US to alternate times in history or third world countries is NOT a valid argument. We could always say that things are better in non-third-world countries. Are you saying it is fine to drop to that level? Is that what you want to leave for your children and grandchildren? a society that has REGRESSED so severely in your lifetime? I'm personally upset with myself that I have not done more politically to prevent this as I could see it coming (as far as becoming politically involved).

My husband and I have been married 30 years. These last two years were the hardest by far, financially. My children cannot find jobs despite being smart, hard workers and in the case of my daughter, college educated. For the first time ever, both my brother in law, sister, brother and sister in law are ALL unemployed and seeking jobs. Seeing the food prices rise, so quickly, is scary and you belittling our fears is rather ......antagonistic. Are you one of those people who like to argue for the sake of argument or are you working for the democratic relelection campaign? I can't decide which. But you couldn't be shopping in the same grocery stores that I have been.

I've personally seen enough Hope and Change to last MY lifetime.

 

[CrimsonRose]

The original discussion began when several people had said that Food had gotten expensive to them... you said you didn't understand how they could say that... The US has cheap food...

Several people have posted their personal experiences and how the food prices have effected them... You still told them (me included that basically I was wrong to say that because I had internet! and that I had no right to call food expensive if I could still afford other things) my internet is paid for through my kiddos schooling... and even if it wasn't we need it for my husbands work... it's less than 20 bucks a month... 20 bucks will only feed us for about a day and a half on a weekday when hubby isn't home... or that's only one day of food on the weekend sometimes we even go over that amount... so ditching the internet wouldn't have a huge impact on our food bill... But since I homeschool and it's free ditching my internet has NO effect on my food bill what so ever... yet not knowing this fact you still basically told me I had no right to complain about food prices!!!

ok move ahead... again there was several posts with good examples of how yes food is more expensive despite the inflation ratio....

again you continued to argue...

Discussing past food prices is fine... my point is... you said current times you don't know how people can complain... but yet every argument you have saying we can't complain stems from antique food prices.... That has nothing to do with my current situation...

so to me it looks like you are just trying to argue... Wiki says "the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response" that's under the definition of a troll... I'm sorry if you genuinely are trying to have a conversation about food prices but it looks more argumentative to me... when you start out basically insulting people and then carry on trying to argue that fact?

 

[abifae]

If you want to discuss that there are other things people should cut before they cut groceries, that could be an interesting discussion. It doesn't change the fact that prices ARE rising for groceries, package sizes ARE shrinking and quality (especially on items like cotton clothing) ARE dropping.

And SD and Rose, you phrased far better than I could have. I was trying to think how to say the same thing. I'm online or I don't work. I'd love to be able to drop that $50/month. But then I'd be unemployed.

That reminds me of a random question: When they determine the national average income, does that count all the 0.00 incomes of the unemployed, or only people making money? Does it count "income" like disability and welfare and unemployment?

 

[savingdogs]

I don't know how that is counted, Abi, but I can think of lots of arguments to add to Crimson Rose's assessment of why the internet is not a luxury especially in the case of certain folks, their livelihoods and their locations. I think the internet is one of the most incredible VALUES we can buy in our society.

Citing particular "facts" becomes trolling when it is done in a manner to belittle and demean other people's point of view. There are a tremendous number of factors that influence the price of food, farm bill subsidies and other issues can be manipulated to represent any particular idology, dpending on the semantics, the time frame quoted, and the accuracy of the cited material.

Is there any PARTICULAR reason you want to convince us all things are so great right now? Or are we all just whiners?

 

[CrimsonRose]

There are a tremendous number of factors that influence the price of food, farm bill subsidies and other issues can be manipulated to represent any particular ideology, depending on the semantics, the time frame quoted, and the accuracy of the cited material.

yes that's why I'm so skeptical of all the wiki references... I could go change any wiki page to say what ever I wanted it too even if it was wrong... and until someone else came along to correct it would say there for the whole world to see but stay inaccurate! I also feel a lot of the numbers don't factor in the big picture...

such as inflation numbers.... general inflation information also includes non-essential items such as big screen tv's and such... Those are mostly made cheep in china and have decreased in prices by thousands over the last few years... so even though food is going up other things are coming down in price making the overall inflation argument seem not that big of a deal... but if you take in the income info as well as just food prices and sizes... then the inflation ratio is out of control! with no foreseeable end in sight.

 

[hoosier]

I acknowledge the cost of food is a lower percentage of income than it was a hundred years ago, but that does not mean they are not rising to the point to cause hardship for many Americans. Today, people have expenses that they didn't have back then. We now have to pay for all manner of insurance policies that was not a part of their budget, the cost of healthcare is a much larger portion of outgo, and taxes consume a higher percentage just to name a few.

 

[JRmom]

I acknowledge the cost of food is a lower percentage of income than it was a hundred years ago, but that does not mean they are not rising to the point to cause hardship for many Americans. Today, people have expenses that they didn't have back then. We now have to pay for all manner of insurance policies that was not a part of their budget, the cost of healthcare is a much larger portion of outgo, and taxes consume a higher percentage just to name a few.

Precisely.