How do a person's political views relate to self sufficiency?

[ScottSD]

I cannot recall a single instance of someone on this forum saying they want <whatever gov't program> for their OWN benefit.

Isn't someone saying they want "environment help now" because it is getting more difficult to grow things in extreme weather saying they want it for their own benefit?

And, I do agree with being compassionate. There are definitely times that the government needs to help out....for a time.

But when people milk it and become dependent on it....that is an entirely different story.

How does the government prevent those from becoming dependent and/or abusing the system? I think if we could figure that one out, we could figure a lot of our problems.

And...there's no paradox in what I believe whatsoever.

 

[hikerchick]

I guess my question for Scott is, do you believe that a person who does not share your political views can be self-sufficient?

After all, that was the topic introduced by the OP. You have been very generous in sharing your views with us but I am not sure you have answered that question directly. If you have, I apologize.

 

[QueenRed]

Some political views come with self sufficient ideology. Capitalism doesn't.

Huh???

What I mean by that is that Capitalism looks more into the industry type life. You're supposed to be using the newest and most advanced technology that you can buy. It's all about the consumer/business relationship. It's not that there are not people in a capitalist society that are not self sufficient, but it's not as encouraged.

 

[QueenRed]

Hey Red. Just got home. If you think about it people living in a communist state have to be very self sufficient. There are lines for every commodity that is required to stay alive. They know how to make a loaf of bread last. If they live on a state run farm they have to make the most out of their garden in order to survive. I grew up during the cold war. Every other week there was a new movie about being nuked or something. I spent 3 years in Germany during the cold war based 15 k from the wall. I am not an advocate of communism.

Germany before Hitler was in a lot worse shape than the USA has ever been in. Comparing the 2 is way off. Lots of interesting misinformation floating around out there. I have to admit I am somewhat disappointed in Obama though. He seems to be buying in to corporate America too much. I was hoping for some change with him but it seems to be the same old Washington. I think the Federal government is set in the same stone they build all their buildings with. It will take a lot more than the peoples will to change anything there.

Meanwhile I dabble in the self sufficient forum for the express purpose of picking up some tips to save money. I don't believe in total self sufficiency. I also don't think you have to live like a pauper to be self sufficient. I definitely don't think politics has anything to do with it.

I'm sure they do. However, it's not because they want to. It's because they have to to not starve. It's really not a happy existence. I'm glad you aren't an advocate for that (wasn't accusing you of it, by the way. Just saying it's not happy in the least bit). Only people that have actually seen it/lived through it can appreciate the fact that they live somewhere that it is not.

I know they were vastly different. I wasn't trying to compare them too closely, but our country is heading down hill. It may come to that one day. That's the only thing I was saying. Germany was in bad shape and the leaders didn't do squat about it except make it worse. That's the comparison I was trying to make.

With everything I have been hearing about Obama, I think it's bigger than that. That's just my opinion though. Everything seems to be going in one direction and it's not a good one.

I agree it will take more than the people's will. It will probably take a freaking coup to make those old buzzards do anything good for the country.

Politics only crosses over the self sufficient realm when certain forms of government are more likely to have people that are self sufficient living in the countries that have those certain governments. It's like the whole communist thing. You agree that they are probably more self sufficient because they have to be. That's the only place it crosses over.

 

[ScottSD]

Some political views come with self sufficient ideology. Capitalism doesn't.

Huh???

What I mean by that is that Capitalism looks more into the industry type life. You're supposed to be using the newest and most advanced technology that you can buy. It's all about the consumer/business relationship. It's not that there are not people in a capitalist society that are not self sufficient, but it's not as encouraged.

Are you saying you can't use advanced technology and be self sufficient?

I guess I better get rid of the computer I'm typing on right now......

Are you saying that non-capitalists don't have a consumer/business relationship?

I wonder...how do non-capitalists get access to the internet......

Just having some fun with you.

 

[me&thegals]

I don't think there is anything inherently illogical about saying that you want to provide for yourself but you also want to assure that those who cannot provide for themselves are taken care of.

It's called being compassionate, which is not incompatible with self-sufficiency.

Another succinct one. It is so simple that I'm always left confused when people don't understand it.

 

[me&thegals]

Politics only crosses over the self sufficient realm when certain forms of government are more likely to have people that are self sufficient living in the countries that have those certain governments. It's like the whole communist thing. You agree that they are probably more self sufficient because they have to be. That's the only place it crosses over.

This is very interesting to me, QueenRed. It would be neat to do a survey of forms of gov't and levels of self-sufficiency among citizens.

Based only on this forum, my sense is that some really *need* to be as SS as possible for financial reasons, but many *enjoy* the satisfaction, pride and higher quality of a SS life. So, in America (generalizing here big time), most people probably do not *need* to make their own bread and chop their own wood, but they are free to do so if they please.

My husband's aunt lives in Ukraine and did during Communism (when it was Romania). They don't bake bread for the pleasure of it. They are as SS as possible because they must be. When she comes home for visits, she and I have a blast. Partly because she doesn't have any other family here who do the things she does simply because they don't have to and they don't want to.

Very interesting to think about...

 

[Ldychef2k]

Some political views come with self sufficient ideology. Capitalism doesn't.

Huh???

What I mean by that is that Capitalism looks more into the industry type life. You're supposed to be using the newest and most advanced technology that you can buy. It's all about the consumer/business relationship. It's not that there are not people in a capitalist society that are not self sufficient, but it's not as encouraged.

For me, capitalism is personal. It means that I am free to succeed and fail based solely on my own behaviors. If I work hard, I will do well.

I believe very strongly in competition as the driving force of capitalism and our economy If I decide I am going to sell widgets and I price them lower than your widgets, and they are of comparable quality, I will sell more widgets. I don't want the government telling me how many widgets I can sell and what I can charge for them. I want a free market, without regulations.

Does that invite corruption? Yep. So does every other method, opportunity, and "ism" on earth. Is that because those systems, etc., are inherently corrupt? Nope. It is because the heart of man is desperately wicked and we live in a lost and fallen world.

 

[Wifezilla]

For me, capitalism is personal. It means that I am free to succeed and fail based solely on my own behaviors.

 

[me&thegals]

For me, capitalism is personal. It means that I am free to succeed and fail based solely on my own behaviors. If I work hard, I will do well.

Well, that might be part of it. But some of the things we do for work, no matter how hard we work, are simply not market driven or valued very much.

To relate to the OP, though, I guess under capitalism, a return to SS would actually drive up certain costs, like axes, garden seeds, yurts...