How do a person's political views relate to self sufficiency?

[Big Daddy]

[So, to me it looks like political systems have tremendous impact on how/whether their citizens are able to sustain themselves.]

Absolutely, but I don't feel our political beliefs really make a difference. A lot of people vote for politicians that don't really represent their views overall, but have one little niche such as pro choice or pro life that fully influence their decision. The rest of the package doesn't matter to them. As long as the one issue is covered that is who they are voting for.

[BTW: Is anybody else tired of this "self sufficiency" label? I know a forum needs a name, but I feel it hinders the conversation sometimes.]

Sometimes it makes it seem like a label. We are trying to be SS as much as possible but we don't recycle tampons, I don't build a bunch of hodge podge buildings to house my chickens. We do grow a lot of tomatoes and Lor does a lot of canning. We tried the laundry detergent, but it leaves a residue after about 10 washings and the ingredients are difficult to find and rather costly. This spring I'm going to build T-post on the ends of the deck to hang laundry. It will look like hell but it sounds like it's worth it in electricity savings and the environmental savings.

I think the trick is to get the conservatives on this line to stop thinking that progressives and liberals are all about a free lunch. We're all in this barrel together.

 

[On Our own]

Wow gang you are doing great at a civl discourse! I am impressed and more hopeful about the future of our species than I have been in a while.

I agree with BD on so many points and just had to come aboard and agree about the title self-sufficient. Trying to be as self sufficient as possible is an admirable intent and goal. Like farmerlor and laurel my bent is related to respect for the land and living creatures and my neighbors. If I do a bad job taking care of my property and my animals etc it impacts my family, friends, and neighbors!

Leaving all issues of liberal and conservative out it seems to me that old thinking about the role of government in the world and our personal lives gets in the way:

It seems that liberals want the government to interfere in business through regulations and personal wealth through taxation. But they believe in leaving the individual to make their own personal choices.

Most conservatives are worried about the moral decline of our nation and equate being left alone with letting you earn whatever you can on your own, not being forced to support others who are freeloaders and yet keeping to a strict plan of curtailing personal rights regarding things like abortion and how people follow some religions.


What is curious to me is that Kansas, the heart of the christian conservative movement these days, was once the heart of the socialist movement. During the shift, they shifted their attention from economics to core moral beliefs. The intense desire to keep the government small and out of their business led them to a terrible state of decay and environmental degradation at the hands of huge agribusinesses that exploited them. And each time the state would yell and scream how they hated these predatory businesses and respond by lowering their taxes.... and lessening the regulatory oversight.

I think people have gotten very confused about the labels that are now meaningless. People are freaked over socialism. We are far less socialistic now than we were in the 50s. Besides what we currently have is neither socialism or capitalism is is a perversion of them both, socialism for the rich, as in the government will help you if you're failing and capitalism for the rest of us, as in you're on your own.

Like the term self-sufficient what we need is a new language, new terminology for economic and political systems which can be compatible. Like the Inuit have hundreds of words for snow while we only have a few, we need new words to allow new ideas to be born.

 

[FarmerChick]

Eventually the gravy train stops, the ladder to climb for a better life falls over and everyone has to adjust. Our never ending wonderful society in the USA can not continue as is in anyway if it is not corrected. It must be from a crash to voting in policies that help the nation, etc.

Morals? Woof.....I think I heard on the tv the other day that PG-13 movies can include one sh*t, one gd, one f*uc and some other bad words...but ONLY ONE of each! yea that is great huh? (I need to research that and see if it is true)

decay happens in any civilization. you start low, climb and climb and Boom, you must go down!! it can only be that way that I can see.

how close are we to boom? Hmm....

without health care our nation crumbles from sick citizens. the taxing of this on a nation is horrible. unhealthy people equals and unhealthynation.

jobs and pride. what in the heck is there left to build? not much of the old USA spirit to make something of land, build new towns, to progress up the ladder. if at the top now down is the only way to go.

we have to find new prides...like turning the environmental problems into a reality of fixing and creating jobs to do so....knowing that they have a meaning, etc.

a job of making plastic crap toys for kids is not (usually) a prideful occupation. Or making more and more computer chips or anything else that is in the "service retail industry"

I don't know, just rambling..LOL

 

[Big Daddy]

Maybe Nifty is right about the world is flat. We will eventually drop while the 3rd world countries rise. Then the world will be flat. Too bad we are the ones dropping, since those with all the wealth control our destinies and those in power don't have the political will to change it. Or even worse, want it to stay that way. I don't think the politicians really have any power. They are beholden to the corporations that get them reelected through contributions. The corporations are not American. They are multinational. They don't care about America, yet they run it. I'm afraid the next administration will openly support and encourage the rape of our country by corporations. Remember the TV commercial with the Indian chief and there's a tear rolling down his cheek.

[the ladder to climb for a better life falls over and everyone has to adjust.] I like that FC. Very visual.

 

[FarmerChick]

you know BD your post is good and has me thinking......truly what power does our actual govt. hold? can it make the changes NOW....or is it too late that the powers to be and the $$ is truly our govt? Is it a true scam? Did we let it go that way with an approving blind eye????

Hmm......

the egyptians ruled for like 3000 years.....where are they and what happened? the romans and the rule...what happened for the decline to truly happen to the level that a "civiliation" is lost. remember also, they did not have big business and international monies to our level now. So if they declined in the "true olden days" and didn't have our problems facing us right now, what truly happens to civilizations??....hmm....

best to check the past to hopefully protect the future??

 

[ScottSD]

.....those with all the wealth control our destinies.......

There's that Hope and Blame I have heard so many times from the left!

Blame the wealthy! It must be their fault!


psssst....BD how many poor people do you know create jobs?

Doesn't saying that the wealthy control our destinies basically say there's nothing we as self-sufficient people can do about it?

 

[FarmerChick]

no one is saying the wealthy---it is not about dollars in one's pocket---it is about POWER

POWER usually means wealthy....to a level far beyond your normal "american wealthy" ya know.

take it a step higher and see "behind the scenes"

 

[ScottSD]

no one is saying the wealthy---it is not about dollars in one's pocket---it is about POWER

POWER usually means wealthy....to a level far beyond your normal "american wealthy" ya know.

take it a step higher and see "behind the scenes"

So.....we're not supposed to read a post as it is written?

He said "since those with all the wealth "





Power? yes it is. It is very obvious by the extreme measures being taken in the last 11 months that the party in the majority is trying to "rape" our country by taking more power.

Good point! Thanks for bringing up power!

 

[sylvie]

[So, to me it looks like political systems have tremendous impact on how/whether their citizens are able to sustain themselves.]

Absolutely, but I don't feel our political beliefs really make a difference. A lot of people vote for politicians that don't really represent their views overall, but have one little niche such as pro choice or pro life that fully influence their decision. The rest of the package doesn't matter to them. As long as the one issue is covered that is who they are voting for.

Best post of the day, IMO.

 

[Ldychef2k]

The government is taking over private industry, is firing CEO's and is telling the companies how much they are allowed to pay their executives. The failing auto industry is being told how to make cars, at a loss. This seems fairly straightforward evidence that the government controls private enterprise, rather than the other way around.

As my 10 year old granddaughter would say: DUH.