Is self sufficiency sustainability?

[Ldychef2k]

The environment and ecology never entered my mind when I decided to become self-sufficient.

We feel the same way.
We are more concerned with how we are being totally drained of all our earnings by industrialization and taxes, in order to live.
Its all fake and such a waste!

In a couple of years, I will be eligible for Social Security. I do not expect it to be there for me. I decided to become self-sufficient so that I would have less taxable income and more confidence in my ability to survive in a society which is being systemically deconstructed.

I did not feel free to live my life on my terms and to achieve as much as I wanted to achieve until I started living differently. Even though it isn't true, at least I FEEL that there is less control over my life.

And more to the point of the thread, I have found that the Environmental Protection Agency is one of the greatest threats to our freedoms.

 

[Bubblingbrooks]

The environment and ecology never entered my mind when I decided to become self-sufficient.

We feel the same way.
We are more concerned with how we are being totally drained of all our earnings by industrialization and taxes, in order to live.
Its all fake and such a waste!

In a couple of years, I will be eligible for Social Security. I do not expect it to be there for me. I decided to become self-sufficient so that I would have less taxable income and more confidence in my ability to survive in a society which is being systemically deconstructed.

I did not feel free to live my life on my terms and to achieve as much as I wanted to achieve until I started living differently. Even though it isn't true, at least I FEEL that there is less control over my life.

And more to the point of the thread, I have found that the Environmental Protection Agency is one of the greatest threats to our freedoms.

NO Kidding!!!!!!

 

[bibliophile birds]

cmjust0, i think we truly agree for the first time!

i think that there are economies of scale that being self-sufficient will never be able to touch. i mean, that's one of the main reasons industrialization happened- it provided items faster and cheaper because it was really really effective vs. doing it at home.

and i think you can easily run into things that are disastrously unsustainable when you are trying to be self-sufficient. take the person who buys some forested land because they want to be SS and then clear cuts it so they can have their home garden and raise livestock... their intention and final actions might be SS and sustainable, but the road they took to get there is ecologically disastrous.

having said that, i think MOST people aren't going to clear cut land to become more SS. and i think that the efficiency that is lost by being SS is made up by something that is EXTREMELY dear to me: social sustainability. social sustainability goes hand-in-hand with environmental sustainability in that it safeguards against the negatives of the industrial system- loss of cultural identity, loss of cultural foodways, loss of community, loss of the ability to live without industrialization. the moment that you get to a point where you can't live without a new system is the moment that that system rules you, rather than you ruling it.

 

[SKR8PN]

The more you produce and create at home, the less you have to use resources that are not limitless like what was once believed. By canning my own tomatoes (just an example, I have yet to do it), I would reduce: the petrochemical fertilizers and pesticides, I use my rabbit and chicken poo and use chickens for pest control; the trucks needed to take the tomatoes from the field to the factory and then to the store, definitely don't need them to bring them from my yard; not to mention no tractors; no metal to make cans; no factories; etc, etc. If you have solar panels (another SS thing I hope to do at some point) and an electric stove, you could be even more efficient as you could save that evergy too.

Ok, but look at the other side of the coin... What more are you consuming by canning your own tomatoes at home in small batches? More to the point...what would it cost if EVERYONE canned their own tomatoes at home in small batches..

To illustrate the point, think about it this way...imagine what would happen is Hunt's and Del Monte and all the other canned veggie giant threw out their highly specialized, highly efficient agriculture and canning systems and replaced them with thousands upon thousands of inefficient consumer-grade cooktop ranges, each manned with one person and a pressure canner.. And imagine that each of those people were also responsible for growing the beans and 'maters!!

Does that sound just a tad ridiculously wasteful and inefficient to anyone else? Because that's the kind of waste I'm talking about.... There's a reason, folks, why they can sell you a can of green beans for $.30 while most of us -- at the end of the day -- couldn't begin to touch that kind of price out of our own gardens if seeds, time, equipment, and everything else were truly taken into account.

Think about it...say you can 10 dozen cans of green beans...that's 120 cans and you've saved, what, $36?!? Do any of us really believe it costs less than $36 -- once everything's included -- to put up 120 cans of beans?

There's just.no.way.

If you don't believe me, well...I'll give you $36 for 120 cans of home-grown, home-canned green beans.

Any takers?





Ya...didn't think so.

BUT..........at least MY home canned green beans aren't loaded up with SODIUM and other preservatives, that, in the long run, cost everyone a hellova lot more in medical bills and lost health. I'll take my time consuming gardening and home canning just for that benefit alone, thankyouverymuch!
One more thing your leaving out.....while that pressure canner is cooking my home grown green beans, I am free to do a LOT of other things, like weave a new rug on my loom, or, plant the next crop of onions, or any one of a number of things that WILL save me time elsewhere, not to mention the FREE psychiatric soothing that I get from watching those green beans grow.
That in and of itself is priceless.

 

[big brown horse]

Right on SKR8PN!

I too put up lots of food the traditional way by lacto fermenting it...no electricity needed and the food becomes a super-food in the way of nutrition.

If I do can this summer, I am using my new handmade rocket stove that uses very little wood...really it just uses twigs! Since I live in a forest and have tons of apple trees to prune I will never run out of fuel for this little rocket stove. (It brings a pot of water to a boil faster than a real electric or gas stove!) Oh and there is no smoke.

ETA: I am building a solar dehydrator soon but until then I'm using Free's method of drying in the dash of my car.

 

[Buster]

cmjust0, i think we truly agree for the first time!

i think that there are economies of scale that being self-sufficient will never be able to touch. i mean, that's one of the main reasons industrialization happened- it provided items faster and cheaper because it was really really effective vs. doing it at home.

So industrial agriculture, fertilized with petroleum products and shipped for miles with all attendant ecological consequences, is more sustainable than growing and preserving your own food from your own back yard? I am surprised at that position, coming from you, bib.

Cmjus01 on the other hand... well, I''ve learned to never to be surprised about anything.

And I mean that affectionately to both of you.

 

[freemotion]

I wouldn't eat a $0.36 can of beans if you paid me. Just eat some styrofoam and get it over with.

Many of us go through all the trouble because we enjoy the process. Many of us go through all the trouble with our food because we know that most of what is available at the grocery store is worth far, far less than the price tag that is on it.

And most of us who aim for a certain degree of self sufficiency still make well-thought out purchases from people more skilled than we are. And we sell our skills as well. I don't think any of us are living as hermits, nor do we aspire to that type of life.

I'd rather have control over most of my food, whether it costs me more or not. Doing so has given me a much greater quality of life. My husband's health has greatly improved. Neither of us is on any meds. My father, in his 70's, is also not on any meds. My mother is on two for Alzheimer's and one for blood pressure, but she took herself off the bp meds AMA (eek, still like the doc to be involved!) because she has been tracking it and since she has been eating at my house for the last four months, her bp has plummeted and stabilized.

Can't do that on a $0.36 can of beans!

 

[Bubblingbrooks]

I wouldn't eat a $0.36 can of beans if you paid me. Just eat some styrofoam and get it over with.

Many of us go through all the trouble because we enjoy the process. Many of us go through all the trouble with our food because we know that most of what is available at the grocery store is worth far, far less than the price tag that is on it.

And most of us who aim for a certain degree of self sufficiency still make well-thought out purchases from people more skilled than we are. And we sell our skills as well. I don't think any of us are living as hermits, nor do we aspire to that type of life.

I'd rather have control over most of my food, whether it costs me more or not. Doing so has given me a much greater quality of life. My husband's health has greatly improved. Neither of us is on any meds. My father, in his 70's, is also not on any meds. My mother is on two for Alzheimer's and one for blood pressure, but she took herself off the bp meds AMA (eek, still like the doc to be involved!) because she has been tracking it and since she has been eating at my house for the last four months, her bp has plummeted and stabilized.

Can't do that on a $0.36 can of beans!

Your mom needs to load on raw coconut oil!!! I have seen quite a few reports on it reversing alzheimers and dementia.

 

[freemotion]

Can you e-mail me some links? I'd heard Sally Fallon say cod liver oil for Alzheimer's, but my mom won't take it and can't swallow pills unless they are tiny. She has a stricture in her esophogus.

I could certainly get her to eat coconut oil! I'd make it into chocolates and she'd scarf them down all day! How much should she take?

Blatant hijack. Important stuff. Sorry, Buster.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

 

[big brown horse]

That is why I love this forum, I learn something new every day!