Is self sufficiency sustainability?

[Buster]

As for beekissed's first question: Anything that is inefficient (time, energy or resources) is not sustainable over the long term.

Could you elaborate on that, please?

I can think of dozens of exceptions to that, but would like to hear your explanation, first.

 

[freemotion]

I think of the word sustainable as applying to the planet.

If, like BubblingBrooks said earlier, we returned to an agrarian society, it would be sustainable in all senses of the word.

Imagine if all of our neighbors also aspired to a self sufficient and ecologically sustainable lifestyle. We could do a lot of bartering.

We might all keep a few chickens and another type of animal for meat, a big garden, maybe some fruit trees. I might trade some pork with Bee for a fleece. I might "fix" Modern Pioneer's back with massage in exchange for a metal gate. Maybe dh will do the same for someone else in exchange for apples and cider. And so it goes.

That is how I would like to live, and it is truly sustainable in every way. IMHO.

 

[Buster]

Buster, wish you'd hang out here a bit more!

Thank you.

Considering the direction the aforementioned board has been taking, I am just likely to do that. I like it here.

 

[Farmfresh]

We like folks that make us take time to think. AND we can agree or disagree (usually) while staying sane and remaining friends.

I have been hard pressed to find that elsewhere.

We would enjoy having you here.

 

[meriruka]

As I read this, I can't help thinking about what would happen to the economy if a good portion of people woke up one morning and decided to live the SS lifestyle.

For example, most of us can live on far less $ than your average city dweller. We use less energy, spend less at the grocery stores, recycle & reuse things so that we spend less at stores like Walmart, we forgo a lot of fancy gadgets, build stuff from scraps, etc.

So, what would happen if the people with the means to buy some land and begin living SS did just that. What happens to the people in the cities with no land who rely on their jobs at the Walmart, Lowes, or the canning factories or groceries and other retail stores?

Don't misunderstand, I'm not in any way saying moving toward SS is a bad idea, I love the fact that a lot of my needs are met by my own hard work (except I will always have to buy clothes, because sewing is my worst skill and unless togas come back into style, I'm doomed)
but it's just something I'm wondering about - a 'what if' scenario I'm throwing out there to see what everyone thinks would happen and ideas on how the US could move in that direction while limiting the damage to the people who are unable to do what we are trying to do.....

 

[ohiofarmgirl]

Buster, wish you'd hang out here a bit more!

Thank you.

.

yeah what she said! hey buddy!

off topic:
were you the one who recently read 40 centuries of farming??? i saw it on someone's signature....maybe you can start a thread and give a couple big ideas from the book and if it did/not change the way you were doing things?

i read part of the excerpts from Small Farmers Journal and while some of it was dry i like.. i like the old timey way of doing things and am always tickled when the old stuff becomes the "new way"
--------
to this point... i remember years ago (when there was a previous "its the end of the world" scare) there was a news story and some guy was pitching a fit about how we'd all be done for if we had to provide for ourselves b/c (loosely quoting from 20 yrs ago...insert breathy hysterics for the full effect)

".....could YOU kill a cow? and then bleed it out? and then butcher it!?!?!? i mean now very many people could do that and......(blah blah blah)"

snicker snicker snicker.. i think the best thing about SS is that you learn what you can do. i think about Bee and her momma butchering that calf and hear that guy's voice in my head.... its still funny to me.

anyway

i think also that some folks think that you need all this equipment and such (machinery and tools) when all you really need is a shovel and a beatin' stick and you can do just about anything. but you have to get up off your tuckus and work and i think thats where people dont think they can do it (sustainably).

wasted time? nah.. what else are you gonna do? sit on the couch and watch tv? its all part of farm-o-nomics

 

[FarmerChick]

sustainability is a big word

in this society as it is RARE some can be truly sustainable "who" wants too in this society ya can't truly do it lol

and it is not going back to the "olden times" soon

 

[bibliophile birds]

cmjust0, i think we truly agree for the first time!

i think that there are economies of scale that being self-sufficient will never be able to touch. i mean, that's one of the main reasons industrialization happened- it provided items faster and cheaper because it was really really effective vs. doing it at home.

So industrial agriculture, fertilized with petroleum products and shipped for miles with all attendant ecological consequences, is more sustainable than growing and preserving your own food from your own back yard? I am surprised at that position, coming from you, bib.

certainly not! i just think it's a dangerous thing to say that being self-sufficient ALWAYS means being more ecologically sustainable. what i do personally and what it seems everyone else on this forum does too, i can feel good about saying that is more sustainable than anything industrialization can even dream of. i just think that we can never get complacent about thinking whatever we do that is SS is sustainable.

let me put it this way: say 5 of us can 200 jars each of tomato sauce at home, using glass jars that we have recycled and our own home-grown goodies. if we compared that to 1000 jars of identical tomato sauce (for argument's sake, it's organic and local to the plant and also in recycled jars). i would almost guarantee that we would end up using a LOT more water or electricity than the plant to can those 1000 jars, and i know it would take them a lot less time.

the big question we have to ask is "is canning more sustainable than what they can do in that plant?"

-for transportation, most likely
-for cultural sustainability, definitely
-for water usage, probably not
-for energy usage, probably not (especially since they can afford alternative energy, such as solar, when a lot of people can't)

now, let's assume that everyone finally starts listening to us and decides SS is the only way to live. there would be a huge exodus from cities and suburbs and people would start gobbling up land left and right. every available parcel would be gone in no time. then people would have to start carving up protected wilderness and clear cutting it. you have to agree that that is seriously unsustainable, ecologically. it's all about scale.

you have to find a balance, and be at peace with it. i don't want everyone to think they can be a farmer. i think everyone should do what they can where they are- like all the people on this forum who have city gardens and microfarms. and those who can't/won't need to shop low impact- they should buy produce from me at the farmer's market!

i've spent the past 8 years working in sustainability. so i might be too much inside that concept to be clear when i try to talk about it. i do think that what we are striving for is ecologically sustainable (in the long run and when everything shakes out) and, most importantly to me, i think it's culturally sustainable. the loss of foodways is an early indicator of cultural collapse. that is an ever increasing danger in this country. that is what i want to strive to fix, with the added benefit that we get to save the environment along with way!

 

[Occamstazer]

Well said, bibliophile!

 

[Bubblingbrooks]

Don't misunderstand, I'm not in any way saying moving toward SS is a bad idea, I love the fact that a lot of my needs are met by my own hard work (except I will always have to buy clothes, because sewing is my worst skill and unless togas come back into style, I'm doomed)
but it's just something I'm wondering about - a 'what if' scenario I'm throwing out there to see what everyone thinks would happen and ideas on how the US could move in that direction while limiting the damage to the people who are unable to do what we are trying to do.....

See now, sewing is something I excell at. If we were neighbors, we would be able to sustain each other

I am not sure what you mean by damage.....