Letter to Obama from 4th Grade Teacher

[me&thegals]

Actually, I've been to all of the places you have mentioned. No system, no matter where you find it, is endlessly beneficent. There is always an equation that has to be balanced. You mentioned Canada in your comments, and their much vaunted health care system. It is being reported that there is a rapidly growing, billion dollar industry in Canada today intended to supplement the government health care plan. In essence, it is private medical options which exist because people are willing to pay private funds for care the government plan fails to provide. Now, I'm confused: What happened to their oh-so superior plan?

David, listen to what you yourself are saying. Right *at the beginning of the above passage* you said "there is always an equation that has to be balanced".

THAT is why there are some people in Canada -- not a majority, mind you -- who would like to be able to buy their way to quicker/fancier healthcare because they have the personal funds to do so.

Not because the system, as is, doesn't work, but simply because there is always a TRADEOFF, in any version including yours David, and there are always going to be some people who would be better served by a system that traded things off more in their own favor than in other peoples'.

While it is currently popular among certain political leanings in the US to say "see, look, gov't healthcare does not work, look at Canada", that is such a big fat misstatement it's not even funny.

Healthcare in Canada works at least as well as it does in the US (it just works *differently*, so there are some individual people who are better off under the Canadian system and some individual people who are better off under the US system); and Canada is far from the poster child of how gov't run healthcare CAN run. Look to a number of countries in Europe to see how it can be done BETTER.

Personally I would rather see the tradeoff inherent in any system be favoring universal accessibility to basic healthcare for EVERYONE rather than leaving the poor or unlucky s-o-l in order to favor the rich and middle class.

Here's how the world works: you work your tail off to make something of yourself. Then you pray you live long enough to see it be worth while. No one can guarantee that in between they will make it rosy and you will never suffer.

Here's another way the world works, for decent human beings: You work your tail off to make something of yourself (and David, what you make of yourself depends a LOT on the luck of what cards you were initially dealt...) and then you HELP YOUR FELLOW MAN.

Given peoples' generally weebly and unreliable impulses for spontaneous charity, I see no problem whatsoever with having the government involved to institutionalize what frankly people have a moral responsibility to be doing ANYhow.

Again, I'm baffled by the desire of self sufficient people to have a government control their outcomes.

I'm baffled by the desire to define the line of 'self sufficiency' wherever personal benefit (or one's line of rhetoric) is best served, and ignore the fact that NOBODY IS SELF SUFFICIENT, we all have to help each other out in various ways. Therefore it is only a matter of *extent* that one can sensibly argue about.

What roads do you drive on, David, and who paid to pave them? Etc etc. And consider how you, personally, have benefitted from police, the fire department, the military... all government functions there to help and protect people...


Pat

As always, Pat, you find a way to say much better what I sit here trying to put into words!!

I get so weary of the "It doesn't work in Canada" statements. We want endless healthcare here without reason, but that financially is not working either. Of COURSE there need to be trade offs...

I also weary of the "self sufficient people don't need the gov't" line. We ALL depend on gov't, unless we have never been in a public school or driven on a public road, used the phone or internet, etc. Obviously we disagree to what degree gov't should be involved in our lives, but imagine privatizing those enormous parts of our lives that gov't is involved in. Sometimes you need something as huge (and inefficient, at times) as gov't to get certain jobs done.

And, as Pat mentions, we do NOT generally look out for each other, at least not reliably, continually and in all pockets of the world. I had the privilege of bringing a huge load of sweet corn to our local food pantry. That line was full of people who were either working or just lost their jobs. I recognized many of their faces from businesses around town. I really am thrilled if some of my tax money keeps them fed until the economy picks up.

As to folks who are terrified of freeloaders, don't you really believe that MOST of the world honestly wants to work, have a decent life and just be healthy? I don't care how good welfare might be, I would never be tempted to it as a way of life. And, no, I don't think I'm special. I think 99.9% of us are made with self respect and motivation to care for ourselves.

I would rather support a few free loaders to make sure I am not leaving out those who genuinely need support to stay alive until things get better. Geez. I always think of the phrase, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." Whether you believe in God, or fate, or Buddha, it's the height of arrogance to think that it might not be one's own self in the welfare line some day--just lose your job, lose your house, get sick, and there you are.

 

[davaroo]

And so, David, whose roads DO you drive on, and whose police, military etc services HAVE been protecting you?

If you're against there being a government at all, fair enough (although, as I say, a glance around the world and through history reveals a pretty grim view of what happens when there is no government). But then that is not about healthcare or welfare, it's about the whole enchilada.

If you are not against there being a government, then it comes down to What can and should a government legitimately do. And how much money should you have to have for it to do it for you.

To me, preventing (as much as possible) people from starving or from suffering/dying from easily treatable conditions is definitely part of what people should be doing for other people and thus what a government should be helping to do.

Pat

Now, your'e making sense.

Wat I am not in favor of seeing happen is those that have earned their priviledge footing the bill for those who have not. I pay my taxes and I drive on roads and have fire protection, as do you.
I also thouroughly enjoy watching those who do nothing, or have come here illegally, or prefer to simply sit and accept that which is handed to them share in the wealth they didn't help create.
Our founders even had commentary on how to deal with vagrants, paupers and other so-called "status criminals."

I do not include the mentally incapacitated, the physically handicapped or children in any of this. Nor do I think we should turn our back on those who have fallen on hard times. We should have an economic surplus, in fact, that can help them without burdening the economy with more taxation. Hey, I like to dream big... so sue me.

But Im reminded in all of this of a joke. Surely you remember Natalie Suleiman, the California woman dubbed, the "Octomom?" A ward of the state, she gave birth to eight fertility-enhanced children on top of the 6 she already had - while living at the taxpayers expense.

It seems Denny's has named one of their signature breakast meals after her, calling it the 'Octomom Breakfast.' Yeah, seems it has eight eggs, no sausage.... and the guy at the other table pays the tab. Sweet, aint it?

Maybe I'm the one who should stretch a little, and give up any notion of fair play and justice, eh?

 

[me&thegals]

I wonder if you believe there are more "freeloaders" than genuinely needy people trying to get a leg up and back in the workforce again.

Also, our income taxes only go so far. The roads are also paid for by gas $. It would be interesting to see what % of taxes are from income and what percentage by other taxes.

BTW, one of the guys at the food pantry was purely delightful. He was about 45 and had no teeth but was thrilled to get sweetcorn once I mentioned he could puree it. He had biked several miles to get there and was trying to figure out how to get the heavy bags back home. He singledhandledly helped me unload 60 dozen sweetcorn, giving up his place in the expanding line of food pantry customers. And, then he came back to thank me and assure me that I wouldn't need to deliver his food, as another food pantry customer had offered to do so.

So--there is is. My first experience with someone on the "dole". It was a lovely one

Davaroo, I don't know your life story, but I really like you based on all your other postings. When folks are upset over welfare, though, I always if they've ever had a chance to rub elbows with folks who need it. I'm not completely naive. I'm sure some experiences would leave me gagging with disgust, but I'm glad for the times when I meet needy folks who do everything they can to help themselves and others.

 

[noobiechickenlady]

Food pantries & government doles are two totally different things.

When you go to the pantry, you see the people who are actually in need and who are actually helping. The people who are IN need usually help with preparation, delivery, serving, etc. There is a human connection there. The foods are usually fresh or canned, not "boxed" meals.

When someone is on the government food dole, they go to an office once or twice, fill out some paperwork and for the next few months, they get no input, no guidance & no flack, they get hundreds of dollars to spend pretty much however they want, as long as it is food. So this could be prepared foods that sap their bodies & make them less likely to be able to get off the other welfare programs, instead of wholesome nourishing foods that they would receive through a pantry or generous farmer.

ETA: Which from my experience from working as a cashier in several grocery stores, people who are on food stamps tend to get easy foods, not fresh veggies & whole grain breads.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

I have a story to share too . . .

A friend of mine has a father who lives in a neighborhood with a homeowner's association. The neighborhood got flooded a few years ago and some of the neighbors were stranded in their homes for several days. It was decided that because the president of the homeowner's association had a Hummer, he was in the best position to deliver groceries to the neighbors in need. Well, he flat out refused because he didn't want to get his Hummer dirty.

It seems to me that if you work hard to accumulate leverage in this world (whether that be power or money) . . . at some point you will be called upon to share it for the good of the community. It is what you do in those moments that proves your character.

And in saying this, I have to admit, that I don't always rise to the occassion, myself. :/ But I guess I am a work in progress.

 

[davaroo]

I wonder if you believe there are more "freeloaders" than genuinely needy people trying to get a leg up and back in the workforce again.

Also, our income taxes only go so far. The roads are also paid for by gas $. It would be interesting to see what % of taxes are from income and what percentage by other taxes.

BTW, one of the guys at the food pantry was purely delightful. He was about 45 and had no teeth but was thrilled to get sweetcorn once I mentioned he could puree it. He had biked several miles to get there and was trying to figure out how to get the heavy bags back home. He singledhandledly helped me unload 60 dozen sweetcorn, giving up his place in the expanding line of food pantry customers. And, then he came back to thank me and assure me that I wouldn't need to deliver his food, as another food pantry customer had offered to do so.

So--there is is. My first experience with someone on the "dole". It was a lovely one

Davaroo, I don't know your life story, but I really like you based on all your other postings. When folks are upset over welfare, though, I always if they've ever had a chance to rub elbows with folks who need it. I'm not completely naive. I'm sure some experiences would leave me gagging with disgust, but I'm glad for the times when I meet needy folks who do everything they can to help themselves and others.

Hey, thanks for asking. you are the first to do so in this debate - I appreciate it!

Rub elbows with folks who need it? How about my dad?
He's a decorated war hero, whom I help to support because the bankrupt system cannot. He is needy.
What about my sister who, when she lost her job, had to move in with me? She was needy.
How about my wifes mom, who recently died, penniless. We, her family, paid to lead her to the after life.
Or my own mom, who contracted the cancer and died. We all were needy, then.

I understand the concept of need. I'm not unique - it is not an arbitrary notion for me, the subject of campaign promises; I get it. So I thank you for asking about me, personally, and giving me a chance to share.

But you know what? You guys may be on to something.
In fact, I'm gonna turn over a new leaf. I avow that, hereafter, I shall endorse the entire agenda of the current regime in their goal to enlighten us and lighten our burdens.
I will trust them that change is, indeed, always good when they orchestrate it.

Give me a few days to wrap my arms around it ,and I'll get back to you...

 

[DrakeMaiden]

But you know what? You guys may be on to something.
In fact, I'm gonna turn over a new leaf. I avow that, hereafter, I shall endorse the entire agenda of the current regime in their goal to enlighten us and lighten our burdens.
I will trust them that change is, indeed, always good when they orchestrate it.

I believe that's called "all or nothing" thinking.

 

[me&thegals]

It's truly wonderful that your family has you, Davaroo. I worry about folks who are not as lucky as you and I and don't have ANY social support.

As for simple foods, some folks are living in hotel rooms and other places that do not allow them to prepare food. And, some folks may have never eaten fresh foods, having not much clue on how to eat them, prepare them or enjoy them.

 

[reinbeau]

Well, this health care bill is all or nothing, too, isn't it? I mean, we're going to spend multiple trillions of dollars to insure the health of - let's see, last figure I heard was 50 million uninsured folks here in the US (actually just found out it's more like 45.6 million). Of course, contained in that number are 10 million legal and illegal immigrants who technically aren't Americans, but we won't go there now. The rest of those people are either truly needy or kids who think they are invincible and don't need or want insurance, and a number of self-reliant types who don't want insurance, they take care of it themselves. Why are we spending all this money to insure only 50,000,000 people (this article, it says it would cost $100 to $150 billion annually - so why does this bill cost so much?? What else is being done in this bill?) That's the crux of the matter. It wouldn't take multiple trillions of dollars to insure that number of Americans. The population of the US is what, 300 million now? 250 million people are insured, and many are happy with that insurance; we're supposed to bankrupt our grandchildren for what purpose?

Here's an interesting article detailing who the uninsured in this country actually are. Not all are poor and unable to pay, they've made a choice, a choice that will be taken away from them if this health care plan comes to fruition.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

Well, honestly, I haven't been paying attention to this health care issue, so I don't know. Seems to me that any good ideas will get lost in the compromises necessary for politicians to come out as "team players". Yeah, I know, I'm apathetic.

I think at some point hard choices will have to be made. Modern medicine is expensive and I'm not sure we have the money or the resources to maintain that sort of care for all of our citizens.

Not everyone is going to want to hear that. :/