Overdosing our babies

[Wildsky]

I am bowing out of this thread now because it just drives me round the bend how people (to some extent on *both* sides of the argument, tho a bit more on the very-anti-vaccine side than the pro-vaccine side) will point at whatever-the-heck happens to seemingly be in favor of their viewpoint and pronounce it "evidence".

To those interested in THINKING about the subject, self-sufficiently rather than depending on others' opinions or leaping to one-sided conclusions, I would strongly urge applying CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS (including, but not limited to, "considering alternative explanations" and "comparing benefits to costs" and "not throwing baby out with bathwater") to EVERYTHING that anyone says on the subject. Also doing your best to track down original sources and fully read them and think about them, rather than relying on heavily-slanted and often head-wilfully-up-their-butt websites (of either camp!) that claim to tell you what it all means.

Pat

If folks do a search here, they can find the other vaccine thread, where I very carefully names source information, listing medical journals etc... which clearly demonstrated the facts being spewed from my keyboard were not made up crap.

(Hi Pat - long time no see)

 

[DrakeMaiden]

I just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents.

I personally am researching each vaccine and making a decision based upon ingredients, risks if the disease is contracted, and risks of vaccinating.

But I honestly understand the view point of those who choose to not vaccinate at all . . . it is their choice and it very well should be their choice, not something that is forced upon them. I can't tell you how much I hate the argument about "herd immunity" and "social responsibility." At the end of the day it is your child and you have to live with whatever consequences happen whether they are FROM vaccination, or due to your decision not to vaccinate. The people who jabber on about "social responsibility" don't give a c^@& about your individual child, they just are looking at the big picture . . . and they will turn around and say (well, they don't speak these words, but they are written down) . . . "here you need to sign away your legal right to sue us for any damages" right before they inject your child. So everyone should d@#^ well have a good long think about it before they agree to any injections. JMO.

 

[patandchickens]

Wait, I just want to be clear here -- hi Wildsky! -- I am *not* accusing *anyone* of "made-up crap", my point is that a number does not always mean nothing-more-than what it is cited to mean, and that is generally a complexly-nuanced neither-black-nor-white checkerboard type subject, rather than "all this is bad; all this is good".

I think that to the extent I am "accusing" (I wouldnt put it that way but undoubtedly others would LOL) anyone of anything -- and my post really is NOT aimed at anyone in particular -- I am mainly accusing them of cherrypicking their "evidence" and not giving both sides' "evidence" equally critical-but-fair consideration.

JMHO, and I really am going to wander off now and leave y'all to your fun on this one (neighbors are coming over to see the baby lambies soon, anyhow),

Pat

 

[DrakeMaiden]

At the end of the day you have to do what you feel is right for you and your child. Inevitably you will find the information that you feel justifies your viewpoint . . . even if you think you are not being biased. That is just human nature, I think.

Do what you feel is right and don't let anyone try to convince you otherwise. It is a decision that only YOU (and your child) have to live with.

 

[Bubblingbrooks]

No cherry picking here. If I had time, I could fill this forum with evidence based stuff. But who has the time for that
Measles was brought up, so I focused on that for a wee bit.

I think the same could be said for others here as well.

 

[patandchickens]

No cherry picking here. If I had time, I could fill this forum with evidence based stuff.

Er, cherrypicking is not in any way the opposite of citing journal papers etc.

Cherrypicking is when you cite only the ones that happen to support your position.



Pat, obviously not extremely talented at retiring from a thread but I SWEAR I'm leaving now, LOL

 

[Our7Wonders]

I totally support anyone's right to make decisions for their children that they feel are right. I hope they are based on research and not merely emotion. But if a child who has not been immunized comes down with a serious life-threatening disease, that child was not served well by the decision that his/her parents made.

Agreed.

I also believe that the children who develop neurological disorders or horrible side effects (including death) have not been well serverd by their parents decision either. Perhaps it easier for those parents to live with their decision because it's what their doctor told them to do. On either side of the fence there are risks. Very real risks. It is a personal decision that each family has to come to on their own. Are all the decisions that we make for our children always the right one? Of course not. I can't imagine the horrific pain I would suffer if our decision to not vaccinate actually harmed one of our children. But after lots (and lots and lots) of research I can't willingly inject my children with something that I know has and continues to cause harm to children all the time. It's a tough emotional decision process and there's no clear cut answer either way.

Let's be respectful of eachother's decisions. And let's be thankful that we still live in a country where we can make that decision - there may be a day coming when we can't.

 

[abifae]

So here's my autistic question of the day:

Don't you live in a society to help care for one another?

Vaccines decrease everyone's risk for infectious disease, not just the person getting immunized. If I understand right, people who live in communities feel a responsibility to one another to help keep one another safe. If that's true, wouldn't people vaccinate to save the lives of children not their own?

 

[moolie]

Two things, then I'm done because no one is ever going to convince anyone to change their views on this one:

The decision whether or not to immunize does not only affect the child in question, it also affects others in the community. I caught measles before the age of 1 and before my immunization window via an adult who was immune (had the disease years previous) who carried it from an infected person. I could have died or gone blind but I was very fortunate.

I wish that people on this forum would stop assuming that everyone is located in the US. We're not.

Hug your kids for me and be the best parent you know how, that is all that is required

 

[DrakeMaiden]

But by your logic moolie, I should be vaccinating myself for Hep B and HIB etc. to protect the weakest members of society. No one has asked me to do that, but I am under-immunized, so I am basically a threat to everyone else's children for those diseases? I don't spend much time around other people's children, so y'all are lucky! Slinking off to hide my biocontaminated self . . .