Paddling....

[Beekissed]

Yep, I agree! I have one child that was easy and barely needed any correction. Two who could have been beat every day of their lives and twice on Sunday and they would still have repeated everything over and over. One just has to find what works for each kid and this may change pretty often.

At the risk of hearing how you favor one child over another because you don't do "X" to him when he disobeys and "you did it to me", blah, blah, blah...., one has to switch things up and work a combination of techniques to stay ahead of the game. As a single parent, I had to stay especially vigilant on shifts of power as they aged, as I didn't want to appear ineffectual during the teen years,when they towered over me!

My folks did it the wrong way also, too hard whippings and no positive reinforcement at all. I guess they improved over their generation(vastly!) and I improved over mine. It remains to be seen how the next generation will fare. Spankings definitely have their place, and if used judiciously, and not in anger, they can be one of the many effective tools for childrearing.

I don't think anyone but God knows the best way to raise a kid, so one has to do the best they can and not let up, finish the task and then let go. God said if you raise them up in the way they should go, they will not depart from it. I just have to have faith that this is so.

I didn't spare the rod when needed, I didn't invoke my children to wrath(another Bible verse), I didn't spare the hugs and love and positive reinforcement. I guess its like everything else in this world....everything in moderation for healthy living. Well....except love...lots of loving and laughing never hurt anyone!

 

[the simple life]

I don't know because I have never run into to that.
If I give them a punishement they might whine and complain about how unfair it is but they still adhere to it.
I refuse to argue with my kids, I am the adult and they are the child. They know the rules and if they break them they deal with the consequences.
I refuse to bargain down on their grounding time or anything else.
After I explain why they are being punished I leave the room and if they follow me to hound me about it I add on something else, and if it keeps going something else.
They caught on to that real quick and learned to keep their mouth shut and do what they were told.

As far as a kid being out of control, not adhering to the punishments and sneaking out of the house.
I don't have any idea because it doesn't happen here.
Doesn't happen. Never had a kid sneak out of my house, if they did I would lock them out and they could walk to a friends house or their grandparents or something.
I assume they never did this because they know I would react that way, I am not a yeller, I just do what I need to do and move on.

I can't explain why its all worked out for us but it has.
Maybe I got lucky and just had great kids or maybe its the area we live in where there isn't a whole lot of punk kids, or my kids gravitate toward the good kids, or maybe its our family dynamics and it just works for us.
I am sure I don't know why different methods work for different people.

As far as the type of kid you explain in your post being totally out of control, I would have to venture a guess and say that is from lack of discipline from the get go.
If a kid doesn't respect their parents enough to obey them and accept the punishment they dole out then they were probably too lax from the time they were little and are now going to face the consequences of an out of control disrespectful kid.
That would be my guess.

Also, if a kid is spanked does it mean that they always obey their parents then and never get into trouble?

If spanking is the answer to raise all kids then why is it needed at all after the first time or two?
Isn't that enough to get it into their head?
That is also a serious question that I have wondered about.
I have wondered about this and it has actually come up in conversation with other people because we all know these people that use to spank their kid right in front of you for everything she did, right from the time she could walk.
She developed into the the worse behaved kid I had ever seen and everyone use to hate when she came to visit because she was such a brat.
She would get smacked for anything she did, but it never ended.
She is an adult now and is still a rotten little thing.
After being spanked the first time or two wouldn't the idea of being spanked be so loathsome to a kid that they would always behave then?
I am wondering why if a child has been spanked for doing something wrong, why do they continue to do things that earn them another spanking if its so effective of a punishment ?
Just wondering.

 

[the simple life]

My last post was in response to what Beekissed asked but there ended up being posts in between while I was typing, so as to not cause anymore confusion.

 

[me&thegals]

It's all very strange and mysterious My eager-to-please child was deathly afraid of one tiny swat on the behind. My willful, stubborn one couldn't really care less. The more he got, the less he cared and the worse he behaved. So, it worked fine for one, not at all for the other.

As my children get older and are plenty old to reason with and have natural consequences, we don't spank any more.

Beekissed, huge kudos to you for raising 3 all alone. I'm sure my parenting would have been completely different if I added a child and then did it all alone with no backup or respite!! Yikes!

Thesimplelife, you sound like you have a great family! Maybe sometimes there are just dynamics between parents and kids that work (or don't). I even sometimes wonder if it makes a difference what kind of child the firstborn is, as they seem to have such a great influence of example on the younger children... It's great, though, that your kids understand that your word means something and will be followed through on.

 

[roosmom]

I am going to go out on a limb.....please remember this is me, not aimed at anyone just my own thoughts..
99.9 percent of us do not remember a darn thing before the age of say eight or nine. You will say "I remember way further back than that" actually, do you really remember or has it been told to you or were you listening in on a conversation and you remember that.. if you really do remember then everyone is better that me cuz I dont remember that far back, especially not at my age. Even when you are young it would be hard to rmemeber age 4 or 5. that being said, onto MY OPINION lol.
A little fear is good for children, it is healthy. I say this because........if you tell the child not to stick their finger in the light socket and they do it anyways-well that is a natural consequence that causes a fear so they dont do it again. If you do not want them to get the NATURAL consequence then you will slap their hands or paddle them to teach them. So they get the PARENTAL fear that causes them to not want to do that again. Same thing with running into traffic, same thing with touching a hot stove or oven etc, etc. See what I mean? There has to be consequences for children to learn. Either natural or parental but either one causes FEAR, and a little healthy fear is ok. We all have it.
My daughter and I have talked a lot about this very subject because with the way society does not allow you to TOUCH your child she has a harder time making her child behave. Still going on with MY OPINION - Since we cant remember any further back then, say 4, I think that it is NOT DAMAGING to spank a child, often, to make sure they learn some of the hard lessons, up until the age 4. Then after that they may only need a once a year reminder of why they fear mom or dad. Children these days have no fear of ANYTHING. Kids say to the parents "you cant touch me or I'll call child protective services". That is a child out of control.
When I am in a store and someones child is acting up (we have all seen it) I tell the parent whatever I need to to let that parent know that they are not alone. I have told parents (right in front of the child) that they can send him/her home with me and I will put him/her to work if they cant behave, send them home with me. Tthen I will look at the child and ask them if they want to go home with me, they usually say no, I then tell the child thhat if they dont listen to the parents then I will come and take them home with me. The child shuts up, quiets down and starts minding again. The parents look at me with gratitude and go about their way. Of course (not very often) some parents dont say much and the child continues to act up. I just shrug and walk away. People I dont want your kids, I am done raising kids. Anyway, that little fear will probbaly get them thru the rest of the store minding the parents.
Anyway, You may get what I am trying to say, You may understand. I am not good at words anymore so I hope you do understand........This is just my opinion.
by the way I say BEAT, I actually mean spank. Beat sounds much scarier to kids LOL.

 

[Beekissed]

Also, if a kid is spanked does it mean that they always obey their parents then and never get into trouble?

If spanking is the answer to raise all kids then why is it needed at all after the first time or two?
Isn't that enough to get it into their head?
That is also a serious question that I have wondered about.

After being spanked the first time or two wouldn't the idea of being spanked be so loathsome to a kid that they would always behave then?
I am wondering why if a child has been spanked for doing something wrong, why do they continue to do things that earn them another spanking if its so effective of a punishment ?
Just wondering.

I would say that spanking is just like not spanking in that respect. Your type of punishment has to be repeated, does it not? Then, I assume that all forms of punishment would have to be reinforced from time to time on some kids. Spanking is just a little quicker and more effective than the alternative, I think. It doesn't have to be reinforced as often as different forms of punishment, as it is, by nature, a more strident reminder. I don't think anyone here said it was better, just different...no better or no worse.

As for the little gal who got spanked all the time? My guess is that she didn't get spanked hard enough for her to get the point..probably just hard enough to make her mad! I've seen this type of spanking also and its worthless. Usually a knee jerk reaction by the parent and is used so frequently as to lose its effectiveness. Usually this turns out just how you described, a desensitized child with no boundaries...she has been rewarded with the same response no matter what she does, so what would be the incentive to change any of her behaviors? None. Usually they get by with murder all day until the parent gets angry, then they get spankings. How confused can a child be than to do the same action over and over with no consequences, and then...whammo! Out of the blue, they get hit! That, to my thinking, is not spanking. That is one child trying to discipline another.

Spankings at our house were last resort punishments for pretty big infractions. The type of infractions that should never repeated. Rarely have I had to spank for the same infraction twice. I've never used grounding. I have used extra chores and denial of privileges.

Spanking is just a different form of punishment, is all. Some feel more effective than most. I think one has to be pretty level headed to employ this method effectively. Not quick to anger, not vindictive....just matter of fact and calm. I think, if you have to be mad before you spank, you've chosen the wrong method at the wrong time!

 

[roosmom]

you know what? we all make sense and we are all right.......we each do what is correct for us. which is as it should be.

 

[Beekissed]

Roosmom, you are right, we all differ on how far back we can remember. I have a sis who can't remember before the age of 12. I can remember distinctly many things from when I was 1! My oldest son has very vague memories of his earlier years. Everyone has different capacities for memory of infancy.

I don't know about the whole invoking fear before 4 years of age vs. later years, but I can tell you, in detail, many, many images from when I was a baby. Can't remember yesterday...but can remember back then!

 

[FarmerChick]

this is a good thread and one that we all kinda agree on.....I think the way we word our posts makes a difference...LOL...

I think a kid absolutely must have healthy fear....just like posted, don't put the finger in the light socket...LOL...you best have learned some fear of things from a parent or the parent didn't do anything to protect the child. And a kid, we all know, WANTS to do what they are told not too.....heck, who doesn't..LOL

but in the end, it surely starts with the personality of the child. who they are and what will be required to raise them in a good healthy manner. individuals all require different methods and different forms of verbal reprimand etc. etc. Hey we all know our kids and we all know what is required to get a bad situation become good.

 

[heatherv]

Very well said Farmer Chick!!!

For my children I discipline them all differently. They're all unique individuals, and one I can just look at sternly and it's like her world has ended (my drama queen) others need privileges taken away, others need physical labor, etc.etc.etc. It's our job as a parent to learn which key works w/ each of our children. Certainly none of my 5 are the same. A couple are a little similar... but still require different discipline.

eta: forgot to mention that a teacher once told us that we're neglectful to make our son "drop and give us 10" (or 20) pushups as a form of discipline.