Salamander rain '09 *PICS* Sunday- update

[ticks]

I have seen some of the vernal pools, but it is on posted land so I had to be sneaky. where I found the majority of Salamanders was where they crossed into a large field. I have never seen their egg masses and I so badly want to raise their larva. I just can't find them.

Have you asked the landowner for permission? If you come across like a wide eyed nature-crazed youth (as opposed to someone going to get all conservation-y or someone who could potentially be affiliated with the gummint in any way) a lot of people will look at you like you are a complete idiot and say 'sure, just keep the gates closed and don't bring any friends or I will be out there wiht my shotgun'.

The egg masses are amazing, if you haven't seen them -- large, sometimes VERY large, with a thick outer layer of clear jelly covering the eggs inside (as opposed to frogs' naked egg masses).

Behind my house there is a vernal pool, but spotteds do not use it, eastern Newts do and I have made a pond aquarium and had newts lay eggs!

Newts are pretty good too -- if you can catch any wild larvae (or hatch eggs laid in a box or tank) they are fun desk pets to raise

I want to make another one, but with baby spotted larva. What do they eat?

Very small invertebrates (daphnia, copepods, the smallest isopods and amphipods and tiniest insect larvae) at first; then as they grow, they remain carnivorous but can take considerably larger prey including appropriately sized tadpoles (like peeper or chorus frog tadpoles). They can also be cannibalistic.

Best way to feed them is to go out every coupla days with a fine net and just net stuff out of a temporary pond, remove clumps of algae and critters too big to be food (especially make sure to remove large predatory dragonfly larvae!) and toss it in with the larvae you're raising. They do best in the largest volume of water you can provide, with a light litter of dead leaves netted from the bottom of their pond (i.e. no mud or dirt or anything like that).

Good luck,

Pat

Thanks
I have read that a stick can be placed in at an older age so they can crawl up it?

Thinking back now, I remember my favorite experience was wehn I caught some tree frog tadpoles, and watched them grow in to tree frogs, I had a terrarium with a spotted in there so I put the frogs in, they lived even though one had a defofrmity. The spotted was small maybe two inches.

I have a twenty gallon tank for them, and a ten gallon as well. How can I tell frog egg masses from Salamander egg masses.

How soon after the rain should I expect to see the masses showing up in ponds?

 

[patandchickens]

I have read that a stick can be placed in at an older age so they can crawl up it?

We always floated a block of wood in the tank as they approached metamorphosis; if you don't mind them leaving while you're not lookin', and not coming back, a strip of old windowscreen (the fiberglass kind, not aluminum) draped generously over the side of the container so that it laps down into the water and off the other side makes an excellent ladder, too.

I have a twenty gallon tank for them, and a ten gallon as well. How can I tell frog egg masses from Salamander egg masses.

Ambystomatid egg masses (except for A. opacum, the marbled salamander, which brood their eggs under logs etc in the damp pond basin starting in the fall; I don't know if they even get into New England) are easily distinguishable by having that extra 'plain' jelly layer around the eggs. It will be an inch or several inches thick. As opposed to a frog egg mass where if you touch it, you're touching the eggs.

How soon after the rain should I expect to see the masses showing up in ponds?

It depends. Usually in NC and OH (which is where the majority of my cruising-for-maculatum experience is from) it will take a couple good rains to get them TO the pond, before they breed. The males come first (on average). I don't suppose you checked to see the gender of the ones you took off the road? Look at the vent -- it will have largeish swollen areas around/alongside it if it's a male, but will be just a plain slit if a female (and the females are usually a bit larger and plumper than the males at this point).

Once they are in the vicinity of the pond, often (again, at least in NC and OH) the males may have one or even two 'false alarms' before breeding for real... they mill around together in one or a couple shallowish areas of the pond and deposit spermatophores on objects on the pond bottom. The spermatophores are sort of yellowy-white little blobby irregular things, maybe a cm across (this is from memory, could be a bit larger than that). In principle the females then come along and pick them up with their hindlegs and use to fertilize the eggs they lay in a deeper part of the pond; in reality, the males not infrequently get themselves worked up into a spermatophore-depositing frenzy without any females in fact being anywhere around the pond and thus those spermatophores are wasted. If they do that, though, they usually 'go' for real on the next good warm rainy night. (meaning, ON that night -- the egg masses are laid in the wee hrs of the morning to around dawn, then the salamanders disappear again til next year, the outward migration being too diffuse to be conspicuous on roads)

I think what I'm saying is pretty much that you have to keep checking. Look for spermatophores (which will tell you that either they have *just* bred, or not quite yet) and for egg masses. Typically they are fairly localized in a particular pond, moreso than most frogs. Memory suggests that most egg masses are going to be in water that's calf-deep to more than knee-deep, but do not quote me on this; spermatophores usually in calf-deep type water.

Aaargh, I really really miss getting to do that sort of stuff

Have fun, and have yourself some EXTRA fun for me please ,

Pat

 

[ticks]

Thanks for that info, I will give it a try. A couple of the ponds that they head to are just about 10 yards off the road. And they are they only ponds for a while.

 

[lorihadams]

My 4 yr old is LOOOOOOOVING you right now! He loves "creepy crawlies"! We usually only get to see 5 lined skinks around here and the occasional toad or bullfrog. We never get to see salamanders and those are beautiful! So brave to risk life and limb for the salamanders! Too cool! We would love to see more pics if you do end up raising some, btw.

 

[amarook]

That's awesome!

 

[ticks]

My 4 yr old is LOOOOOOOVING you right now! He loves "creepy crawlies"! We usually only get to see 5 lined skinks around here and the occasional toad or bullfrog. We never get to see salamanders and those are beautiful! So brave to risk life and limb for the salamanders! Too cool! We would love to see more pics if you do end up raising some, btw.

Haha, I will take more pics
That is if I find their egg masses

 

[ticks]

Hey Pat, I have another question, do you we are supposed to get another heavy rain on Sunday, into Monday and Monday night, do you think there will be any more crossing? I think maybe.

 

[patandchickens]

If they didn't breed last night (or whatever recent night it was you took those photos) then there will almost certainly be more crossing.

You can practice vent-sexing any you rescue, also it might give a hint as to where in the breeding season you are (rememberin that males tend to move to the pond earlier than females, on average)

have fun!

Pat

 

[Okiemommy]

That's really cool ticks!

 

[miss_thenorth]

Thak you so much for the education--I have never heard of salamander rains before, but now am deeply interested in it.

My hat goes off to you and your dad for doing this.